Jonathon Arthur Ciener Update

[Pecos Bill]

Perhaps some of you may have seen my rant on the JAC Co. last summer. If so I thought you might be interested in an update.

For those of you who haven't seen that post I submit a reminder. I ordered a JAC 22 conversion for my Beretta M9 on April 30, 2010.

It is now Jan. 3, 2011 and I have received nothing from the company despite numerous letters. I have requested and demanded my money back, no response. I have contacted the USPS Inspectors, the BBB, the local sheriff, the Florida AG and they have been unable to help. The case is in the hands of the Florida Office of Consumer Affairs. Now before anyone mentions I should have checked this company out please I have had business with them in the past and was completely satisfied. Also before it's mentioned I know that the company's web site says if I have a question about my order I should send $10 and they will process my request. I only ask why I should send an additional $10 when my initial order wasn't acknowledged.

I didn't intend this to turn into a rant but it has. I just wanted to let folks know that this company seems to have a way of receiving a customers money and not doing a whole lot with it.

Thanks for letting me blow off, Pecos

[kmitch200]

Sad to see JAC is doing business as usual....

Hope you get your money or your parts soon.

[tombogan03884]

Links to your previous threads

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=13783.0

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=13784.0

 I don't think any one here is going to give you crap about not "checking them out", This is a Company that has been in business for decades, and as you posted, you have done business with them before. I don't see how you could get any more information than that.
Ciener has always had a reputation for poor customer service, but the idea of charging an addition $10 to answer the question "Where the hell is the stuff I paid for ?" is totally outrageous.
I hope you stick it to this Ahole good.

[Snake45]

Sorry to hear this.

He has a rep for the world's worst customer service, but this is egregious. 

I've bought four units, all direct from him. Three of them, 1911s, no problem, the most recent last year for Christmas and it arrived in less than 30 days.

The fourth was a P.35 unit, ordered when they were first announced in 2004. That one took a nail-biting, hair-pulling nine weeks to get. NOW that's beginning to look like "express service" from JAC. 

All four units have worked perfectly so I've never needed any service from him, Thank The Lord. 

Nowadays I tell people to order from a retailer such as Brownell's if possible. Better chance of getting the thing in timely fashion. The only downside is that the resellers only seem to sell the matte black finish, which sucks if you want one of the other three choices (I prefer the glossies).

Don't feel bad about venting. That's what Al Bore invented the internet for. And good thing, too, since today so much of the venting is about Al Bore's horsecrap global warming scam. 

[tombogan03884]

Sorry to hear this.

He has a rep for the world's worst customer service, but this is egregious.  

I've bought four units, all direct from him. Three of them, 1911s, no problem, the most recent last year for Christmas and it arrived in less than 30 days.

The fourth was a P.35 unit, ordered when they were first announced in 2004. That one took a nail-biting, hair-pulling nine weeks to get. NOW that's beginning to look like "express service" from JAC.  

All four units have worked perfectly so I've never needed any service from him, Thank The Lord.  

Nowadays I tell people to order from a retailer such as Brownell's if possible. Better chance of getting the thing in timely fashion. The only downside is that the resellers only seem to sell the matte black finish, which sucks if you want one of the other three choices (I prefer the glossies).

Don't feel bad about venting. That's what Al Bore invented the internet for. And good thing, too, since today so much of the venting is about Al Bore's horsecrap global warming scam.  

Kind of ironic isn't it  

[Sponsor]

[Snake45]

More Ciener lore:

First unit I ordered from them was in the late '90s or very early '00s. I got it in less then ten days, having sent a personal check out of the clear blue. I was impressed! 

When I ordered the P35 unit in 2004, I expected the same. When I'd heard nothing in a month, I started calling. Back in those days, they would actually answer the phone from time to time. Got two or three different nasty people. When I reminded one of them that FTC regs required them to ship the product or notification within 30 days, he growled, "Would you rather we spend our time answering the phone and FTC complaints, or actually building some G--D--- products?" and then hung up.    I got the impression I wasn't his first complaint that day.

The last time I called about the P35 unit, I'm pretty sure I talked to JAC himself. He was also semi-nasty until I mentioned I owned and liked one of his 1911 units, and then he said, "A repeat customer, huh?" And then I heard what sounded like a file cabinet opening and there was some paper-shuffling sounds. When he came back on, he'd completely changed his tune. "I'll do my best to get that out to you in the next week or so," he said, and darned if he didn't! 

I've bought two more 1911 units from him since then, in 2006 and 2009. Both times I wrote a nice, chatty letter telling them about my previous purchases and how well they worked and how much I was enjoying them and so forth, and both times I got my product in 30 days or less.

Yes, I know what I am. And a real shameless one, too, if it helps me get what I want. 

[fightingquaker13]

Here's the thing. This post has been read 116 times. I'don't know how many times the first one was read. The odds of any of us doing business with this guy? Zero. $10 to take a complaint? "Would you rather I answer the phones or work"? Hire a freaking 18 year old at $7 an hour. All they have to do is take messages, track orders, and, oh yeah, RETURN CALLS. Not hard. By screwing over one guy that we respect, how much business has this guy cost himself?
FQ13

[Snake45]

Here's the thing. This post has been read 116 times. I'don't know how many times the first one was read. The odds of any of us doing business with this guy? Zero. $10 to take a complaint? "Would you rather I answer the phones or work"? Hire a freaking 18 year old at $7 an hour. All they have to do is take messages, track orders, and, oh yeah, RETURN CALLS. Not hard. By screwing over one guy that we respect, how much business has this guy cost himself?
FQ13

You are exactly right. I've said many times that the smartest bidness thing JAC could do is hire a really sharp customer service guy or woman for $50K a year (such as myself  ). Someone to be nice, sound concerned, give out some information (or even plausable sounding excuses) and maybe even get an order expeditied from time to time. A little of that kind of thing goes a long way. The word always gets out, good or bad. Ciener's got nothing but Bad Words out there about him now. It's a miracle he's still in bidness.

[sledgemeister]

Dont you guys have debt collectors over there? You paid for a service product you did not receive, therefore you are owed a debt.
Ya know for the sake of another couple hundred I would send a solicitors letter threatening to sue for recovery of funds, time and effort spent trying to revover said funds and anything else the solicitor deems worthy.
Just to cause the worm the effort of having to deal with it would be reason enough, it might give the prick a migraine. 

[Pecos Bill]

Dont you guys have debt collectors over there? You paid for a service product you did not receive, therefore you are owed a debt.
Ya know for the sake of another couple hundred I would send a solicitors letter threatening to sue for recovery of funds, time and effort spent trying to revover said funds and anything else the solicitor deems worthy.
Just to cause the worm the effort of having to deal with it would be reason enough, it might give the prick a migraine.  

Yes we have such services over here. However look at it from my stand point. This clown is in the southern end of Florida, I'm some 800 mile or more away. In order for me the sick someone on this clown I have to hire people in that part of the country. If they do their job then I get my $209 back and it costs me several hundred more. I could take them to small claims court but that means I go to Florida or hire an attorney (at $150 to $250 per hour) either way it costs me a lot more than the $209 to get $209 back. That's what makes this so bloody frustrating. This clown knows I probably don't have the resources to collect the money (I don't) so he makes $209 and I'm left out in the cold. Believe me if I lived in Florida I would have been knocking on the door but I can't. At the moment I letting the state get on his case, may work may not but he is being bugged about this.

Sorry guys, another rant and I certainly appreciate the concern from our friend down under I just wanted to explain why I didn't have this business blown up so to speak, Pecos