Controversial Kevorkian Dead at 83

[tombogan03884]

@Tom,

I know I used the word "sacred" which certainly brings up religious connotations, but I have to ask if you a question just to understand your viewpoint (not to spark a debate).

Do you feel that human life is no different than what we would call animal life?

Is the death of a person, dog, hog, deer, cow, or mosquito all on the same level.

By the way, most of these thoughts date much farther back than Christianity, so you can lay thoughts on the ethics of suicide at their doorstep. In ancient Greece it was outlawed. See http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/suicide/#AncClaVieSui

Yes.
Regardless of social prejudices Homo Sapiens is simply another animal in the food chain, not even at the top.
I'm not going to bother trying to read Plato, I started on the "Symposium" several times years ago and it was like a  printed sleeping pill.

[LittleRed]

Fair enough.

I'm sure we probably agree on far too many other things to splits hairs over this one, but if you are going to claim something is based on something else a little reading might be in order.

Get a BIG cup of coffee, though! 

[Solus]

@Tom,

I know I used the word "sacred" which certainly brings up religious connotations, but I have to ask if you a question just to understand your viewpoint (not to spark a debate).

Do you feel that human life is no different than what we would call animal life?

Is the death of a person, dog, hog, deer, cow, or mosquito all on the same level.

By the way, most of these thoughts date much farther back than Christianity, so you can lay thoughts on the ethics of suicide at their doorstep. In ancient Greece it was outlawed. See http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/suicide/#AncClaVieSui

Interesting view on this.

Do other animals contemplate suicide?  I'd expect not.  That seems to be a human trait.  I know lemmings rush to their death and I've heard turkeys will drown by looking up with open mouths in the rain, but I'm guessing there is some other motivation than suicide.

On the same theme, pornography seems to be a human only pursuit.  I'd be surprised if animals would be aroused by a picture?

[kmitch200]

Life is sacred. It should never be ended lightly. On one side I would argue the individual's right (assisted by definition takes it out of the individual realm, though) and on the other my biggest opposition comes from what I heard surrounding the healthcare law. Apparently, there were provisions for "end of life" counseling. If I go to a medical facility, I go to bet better. If assisted suicide is on the menu of options they can recommend, how do you think that will play out in a few decades?

I agree. Life should never be ended lightly. The assisted suicide debate, (and Dr. K's conviction), came about because the medical/legal/political society can't agree on what end of life decisions you as an individual, could make. The "assisted" part was because most people without medical training don't know what will chemicals will kill you painlessly, peacefully and don't have access to them.

If you "go to a med facility to get better" and are diagnosed with a large, agressive cancer tumor that surroundeds many large and small blood vessels, you are NOT going to "get better" if the team of docs say it is inoperable and terminal.
If your second or third opinion docs say the same things, do you want to have the option to end your now numbered days on your terms painlessly, or do you want to die in agony because some bureaucrat, (political/legal/medical), says you should - and FORCES you to?

In a few decades, sadly, I believe that this debate will still be going on. Too many people believe that docs can cure anything.
The truth is death will be the fate of ALL of us whether we like it or not.

Interesting discussion...

[tombogan03884]

Solus, the reason turkeys die that way, (and as far as I know it's only domesticated ones ) is pure stupidity.

LittleRed, The point is still that it is merely a Western Cultural bias.
And not a very strictly observed one either, look at the examples of  disgraced  people being given a gun and 1 bullet with the suggestion they "do the right thing". Rommel is an example. Then of course there were the bankers and investors jumping from windows after the Stock market crash of 29.
If a persons life has become a burden to them who has the right to tell them they have no choice but to continue their suffering ? Who has the right to deprive them of the least painful, least messy, least potentially dangerous method available ?

Various types of animals do in fact commit suicide, generally they are pets who quit eating when they lose their human.
Porn, I don't know.  I don't think they make those kind of movies species specific.   

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

Solus, I wish you were around when I was taking my political philosophy comp. One of the questions was on the nature of man and whether we were different from beasts. We had to give examples from different theorists on human nature and what sort of government was required, and make an argument to support it. Had I had your post, I would have scored a home run. "Of course men are different than mere beasts, and thus can support republican government. After all, we buy porn and off ourselves".
FQ13

[Solus]

FQ, it occurred to me 30 years ago when someone was saying that porno made us act like animals, and it struck me that it was actually one of the major differences between Man and animals.

[Ichiban]

Apparently, humans aren't the only ones that like porn.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2005/02/08/1298389.htm
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/AmazingAnimals/porn-boost-male-pandas-sex-drives/story?id=9718714

As far as lemmings committing suicide...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming
More like stupidity.

[Solus]

Might be a bit of a stretch about the monkeys.

Interested and aroused aren't the same, and I'd bet that if the males in this study became aroused viewing the female hindquarters, it would have been noted.

Sounds like it might be closer to Star Magazine than Playboy.

[sledgemeister]

By the way, most of these thoughts date much farther back than Christianity, so you can lay thoughts on the ethics of suicide at their doorstep. In ancient Greece it was outlawed. See http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/suicide/#AncClaVieSui

Ahhh the Greeks, when one thinks of them they think of the scholars, like Plato, Socrates etc, and as you have mentioned they passed a law to outlaw suicide. Strange that this seems to be wrong, but it was ok for them to have a custom called paiderastia where adult males take young boys as lovers.