HBO mini-series (war movies)

[tombogan03884]

That comment about the Poles "And got it WORSE than the jews!!!" is pure bullshit.
Why do you think all the "death" camps were in the East ?  The Polish "Home Army" used to turn Jew's in to the Nazi's.
Many of the Jews in Germany had fled there from Poland.
The Poles got what they deserved, they were in a perfect position to play off Germany and Russia against each other so they would both have reason to guarantee Poland's borders, instead, with obsolete forces of insufficient strength, and with no allies in a position to help them, they pissed off both countries.

[Badgersmilk]

I'll give you the Poll's weren't the sharpest tools in the shed (no secret   )  But more Poll's died in camps than Jew's.  Nazi's AND the Russians were after the Poll's.  The total killed completely eclipsed the numbers of jews killed.  By "wrong place at the wrong time", I meant that the Poll's were helplessly sitting on a natural resources gold mine.  So when both Russia, and Hitler had enough of buying from them at ever raising prices...  Well, they "were in the wrong place at the wrong time".  Stinks being the resources rich kid on the block when your hungry neighbors are bigger than you.  

Granted, the Pollocks were dumb for not choosing an alliance AND building a military (their people were to under educated to know which end of the rifle to hold.  And its no like the Italians were any better), but at least the Poll's aren't STILL crying about it expecting the world to have a pitty party SEVENTY years later.    So I'll give them points if only because the took their whoopin like a man.  AND, the Jew's asked for what they got by driving their countries into a depression with they BS business practices.

We Americans aren't the worlds sweethearts like we pretend to be either.    Before the "death camps" were started Hitler put the jews on boats (CRUISE SHIPS NO LESS!) and sent them here.  Guess what.  We turned them away for the same reason Hitler was trying to get rid of them in the first place.

[Badgersmilk]

Side note:  For those who like End of the World stuff, "Jericho" is on Netflix to!     I thought it was a great show first time around.  Plan on watching it again tonight. 

[Pathfinder]

Badger and Tom, both of you chill out!!!! You are both hugely wrong.

The Poles broke the German Enigma code - BY HAND!!! Before the British. In fact, the British Enigma work was started by the Poles who then made it to England. Not smart? BS!! Like most in Europe, they had no clue what was coming at them from both sides.

The Poles had alliances - Like Finland, their "allies" did nothing to help them when attacked to avoid pissing off Stalin.

On the one hand you want us to believe that the Poles aren't smart, but OTOH you want us to believe they were able to piss off both the Nazi's and the Commies?

In fact, both the Nazis and the Commies both wanted Poland - the Nazis for slave labor and lebensraum, and the Commies for total subjugation in the NWO after WW2. When the Polish Home Army and partisans rose up in revolt in early 1945, Stalin ordered his nearby Red forces to sit still and do nothing to help, letting the Germans destroy what would otherwise become a thorn in Stalin's side - and wear themselves out in the process. Not to mention the earlier Katyn forest massacre where over 4000 Polish officers were executed by the NKVD. Nor the Warsaw uprising by Badger's disliked Jews who held the krauts off for a month - all without training, reinforcements, supplies (other than what could be stolen) or "allied help".

For the record, Badger, the WW2 in HD is a series - what you saw was one episode. I have watched it myself and do not see the Jewish influence over the whole series. Especially all of the episodes with the Japanese.

Both of you need to lay off the whole "they had it coming" or "got what it deserved" crap. In these 2 cases it is totally wrong.

[tombogan03884]

Finland was in no position to help any one, they had all they could do to survive against the Russians. Poland suffered the "encirclement" that Kaiser Wilhelm had feared . Yes, they were allied to France, but that was meaningless. There was no way France, or any other country could get supplies or reinforcements into Poland.
And I never said the Polish people weren't smart or brave, just anti Semite bastards.
In fact, Before Hitler, Germany had the best reputation in Europe for how Jews were treated.
Where the Polish Government blew it was in their land demands after WWI, prior to that Poland did not exist as an independent nation.  The demands for lands, such as the previously German, East Prussia , left everyone predicting another war.

[Sponsor]

[Badgersmilk]

I'm not getting pissed or anything at the discussion.  And enjoy especially your and Tom's input because you've done some research beyond the total BS our school system and press would lead you to believe. 

Absolutely right both Russia and Germany wanted Poland.  Because of their natural resources.  That's what I meant by saying the pol's were in the wrong place at the wrong time.  They were sitting on top something both of the bigger countries wanted. 

No great surprise for anyone France was no help.   

What I was trying to say (thought it was more clear) was the the pol's were more or less innocent victims.  And suffered far greater losses during the war than the jews.  The jews (Do the research on why Germans economy was in the crapper prior to the war) asked for what they got.  Their business practices were along the lines of the Italian mafia, but better managed.  Hitler made FAR more friendly "PC" attempts to deal with his countries issues the jews had created.  Problem is, they knew they were successfully raping the German economy for every cent they could.  Why change when asked?  Or leave???  When forced to leave NOBODY would take them.  Yes, the "great melting pot" turned them away to!

We (america) and everybody refused to take them.  They wouldn't stop their corrupt, thieving practices.  Hitler, being "a bit of an extremist" did what he felt was the only remaining answer to save his country.  Where'd he get the idea???  Stalin makes what Hitler did look like a tip tow through the daisies!  We never say a WORD about Stalin activities!      American are just so stupid we eat up whatever lies their fed like its a novel about teenage vampires in love.   

[tombogan03884]

While I agree with your statement that this isn't an argument, it is a debate that goes beyond the trite oversimplification of modern "education".
But I have to take issue with you blaming the Jews for Germany's problems post WWI. It's BS.
Germany's 2 biggest problems were they lost the war, #1, while the Army may have still been holding the allies the country had been bled white. With US entry into the war, even with the troops released from the Eastern front by the collapse of Russia, it was only a matter of time before the numerical superiority of the US simply overwhelmed them.  While many like to cling to the "stab in the back" excuse, the simple fact is that the German people were starving, troops at the front were eating better than civilians at home.
#2 is the fact of the political upheaval that started with the abdication of Kaiser Wilhelm. Between punitive reparations demanded by the Allies, incompetent fiscal management by the inexperienced "democracy" of the Wiemar Republic, and  the continuation of the allied blockade of Germany the nation had limited ability to resist the revolutionary warfare instigated by communist subversives. The war may have ended in 1918, but fighting in Germany lasted well into the 20's.
In short, Germany's problems had nothing to do with the Jews.
If you want to read a novelized version of this period that will give you an accurate perspective, read "Winter" by Len Deighton.  It follows the fortunes of a Berlin family from 1-1-1900 through the end of the war.

[Badgersmilk]

Both valid points for their period.  But looking at the period closer to the beginning of WWII Germany's economy was being hurt primarily by the fact that unless you were jewish you paid a premium for everything you bought.  A HUGE premium.  And the origin of the premium was simply the jewish business community controlling prices.  How did Hitler spin the economy in a 180, put people back to work, make food affordable, housing, even luxuries?  He shut down the jewish businesses.  Yes, it was comprable to a witch hunt in that if somebody accused you of jewish favoratism...  You were LUCKY if all they did was shut your stores doors and label you as unfit to buy from.  This tactic WORKED.  Worked fast.  I'm not sure, but believe it was only 6 months Hitler was in office before he'd successfully turned things in the right direction, and was recieving world wide recognition for it. 

Time magazine:


If you ask most americans, and I did ask a few of my kids friends who just got out of world history a few weeks back.  They'll tell you. "WWII started because Hitler was killing all the jews and the rest of the world wasn't going to let him."...  Ohhhh, boy.   

Tom, appreciate your commentary!  But UPS just came with my scope!  LATER!   

[Pathfinder]

My reference to Finland was not as a Polish ally, but rather the Finns found themselves in a similar position when attacked by the Commies in 1940 - they appealed for help from England and France and got absolutely nothing. Oh, Churchill used the idea of helping Finland to help sell his idea to invade Norway at Narvik, but that was as far as any "help" the Finns got.

The Poles got no help from these same 2 "allies" either. That was my point.

As for the post-WWI era, Tom about covered it all, except he missed that in addition to crushing reparations, the Germans also lost the Alsace industrial region to the French, a region that provided considerable wealth to the Germans before WWI.

The German people were starving as the war dragged on. There is a story told about a tram horse dropping dead in the street, and within an hour there was nothing left - the citizens butchered it where it fell and carried off everything for the stew pot.

Whatever the failings of the Jews in Europe - and there were undoubtedly many - it in no way constitutes a "they deserved it" mindset. The Jews have been a European whipping boy since the Medieval Age, and were officially thrown out of most of the countries in Europe at one time or another.

Example: Very few people know that the very day that Columbus left port to explore to the west, August 3, 1492, was also the last official day you could remain in Spain and not be a Catholic. In the 2-300 years prior to this, the Jews were expelled from the various baronies and dukedoms that comprised France and Germany, Austrian, as well as from England.

Hitler had lots of options, but truth is, he simply used them as a continuing scapegoat for all of the problems that came from the abusive punishment of the allies, the incompetence of the Weimar gummint, the subversive meddling of the Commies, and all of the other problems that faced post-war Germany.

[tombogan03884]

Finland was the country that really took the shaft.
In their heroic defiance of the Soviets  circumstances forced them into alliance with Nazi Germany, while the Finns did not agree with Nazi policy they wound up getting slandered by the association. Americans who volunteered to serve with the Finnish armed forces, such as pilots, received far harsher punishment than those who served with the communists in Spain.