Citizenship Test.

[Timothy]

FQ, your UT students at 70% eclipsed the average American by 40 points. 

Most folks can't pass this exam, period!  I would suspect that most folks on this forum would score in the 80-90 percentile but then, we pay attention and study history as a matter of survival.

I needed to know this stuff to graduate from HS 36 years ago.  My kid probably had one week of one semester in HS that covered our standard of Government.  She can't answer half of these questions.

Plain and simple, our schools are failing for a myriad of reasons.  MA probably has some of the highest paid educators in the US and I can take them all to task with my piddly little HS diploma!

Most educators are boneheads IMO!

[fightingquaker13]

FQ, your UT students at 70% eclipsed the average American by 40 points. 

But they made it into the flagship school of TX.  We're  not talking folks off the street here. And yet one in three fail to meet the standards we demand of new immigrants? Is it me or is this a problem? Maybe we should attract some better teachers. Just saying.
FQ13

[Timothy]

But they made it into the flagship school of TX.  We're  not talking folks off the street here. And yet one in three fail to meet the standards we demand of new immigrants? Is it me or is this a problem? Maybe we should attract some better teachers. Just saying.
FQ13

I sent this test to three college educated kids that I work with today.  Not one said that they had the knowledge to pass but I asked that they at least try.  We'll see how they fare over the weekend.  I also offered my pocket Constitution that I keep with me for reference.

None were interested.  Average age is about 30...

tears for the future of this country...

[Mericet]

I hope you understand that I  have no beef with folks like you and my BIL who followed the rules.
The "wink, wink, nudge, nudge," attitude toward illegal immigration is even more insulting to you than to those born here.

Believe me, I do not have much time or compassion for those that do not follow the rules either. Or those who just let the rule breakers get away with it.

Welcome to America, Mericet.

I know it is belated, but just found out 

I'd say that by your presence on this forum, you have embraced the elements of Freedom and Independence guaranteed and protected by our Constitution, that we here cherish.

I have much respect for naturalized citizens.  All 4 of my grand parents were immigrants and they worked harder to gain their citizenship than those of us born here. 

Glad you are here to join us in our struggle to maintain those rights and ideals.

Take care.

Thanks! And I certainly have embraced the Constitution and all it stands for!

[tombogan03884]

FQ's argument is provably bullshit.
If it were true then how come the most expensive school systems in the country, like Detroit , have piss poor test scores and 75% drop out rates ?
2 reasons, Teachers Unions and tenure.

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

FQ's argument is provably bullshit.
If it were true then how come the most expensive school systems in the country, like Detroit , have piss poor test scores and 75% drop out rates ?
2 reasons, Teachers Unions and tenure.

BZZT, wrong answer! How are Detroit teacher's salaries compared to the national average? Are they high enough to get YOU to sign on as a metal shop teacher? I would want serious dollars to walk into that hell hole, in  fact, I'm not sure how much money it would take to get me to do that job. And there's the rub. We have a job that needs doing. How do you attract competent people to do it? Cause they won't work for free in a Sh#t hole like Detroit.
FQ13

[tombogan03884]

Detroit spends more per student than any other city in America. Yes they are high enough wages to get me to apply.
Maybe they would get better results if they skipped the "social awareness " crap and concentrated on Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic. Maybe then our test scores would rise above 3rd world shit holes again .
FQ, Compare over the last 100 years, the more socialist BS introduced to education, the less actual "education the students get.

[Rastus]

Some of us just don't think.  Teachers have always been "underpaid".

It was the "underpaid" teachers of decades ago that taught historical events that actually happened.  What is different today...personal anti-American agenda.

If the "underpaid" teachers can't correctly recite historical events and have a personal dogma to advance then fire them. 

40 or 50 taken in one's or two's across the nation should get the point across quite nicely.  They may wake up to find out they don't know it all when their unemployment runs out and the only skills they have remaining put them across the hamburger grill from Johnny dropout.

Not all, but too many teachers are driven to be teachers because they desire for themselves and their beliefs to be esteemed for their own self-worth issues...i.e, it is more than a job you enjoy.  How better than to be "the focus of all things intelligent" to get on that pedestal?   For some reason it appears that decades ago this nation went from having a healthy respect for teachers straight into some perverted god-like deification of teachers and whatever crap falls out of their mouths as being gospel.

[Timothy]

For what it's worth.  

The man that taught me more in the six years he was my teacher, at least one class from the 6th grade through my senior year, is still teaching at my High School.  He started teaching in about 1966 for the Northview School system and is still going strong today.  He didn't do it for the money, he didn't get subverted by the liberal left, he never let a kid get away with anything.  I know, I have a permanent dent in my chest from getting hit by a thrown eraser a time or two..  

He is the epitome of what an educator SHOULD be and will leave a legacy that will be remembered for at least five generations of students who became the parents and grandparents of students who's kids were taught by the same man.

Money doesn't drive me, money shouldn't drive anyone to be better at what they do!  Money subverts like power subverts.

Money is purely a tool that we need to survive in modern society.  If you do well, than you deserve more of it but unless and until you prove you're worth the money, kiss my big white Irish ass...

BTW, you'll find this mans name in the visitor logs and memo's at the G.R. Ford Presidential Library in Grand Rapids, MI as he's been married to Gerry's niece for the last forty plus years...

A great man isn't great because of his income, he's great because he does the right thing....see postscript..

[Solus]

Timothy,

Would that every teacher could be like that, but I'd guess they are in very short supply.

I went to college and met a guy who was studying to become a history teacher.  His stated motivation was that since it was history and it didn't change, once he got his lesson plan written all he had to do for the rest of his career is show up for class and give and grade assignments....and get the summer off to boot.

Big problem is that the "management" and "administration" of schools and school districts come from the same pool that you find the unmotivated teachers. 

Find a way to fund colleges by the success of it's graduates, maybe corporate sponsors who get first dibs on grads and then the colleges use high schools as "farm schools"  and the high schools use the elementary schools the same way.

I know "corporate" can have a bad influence, but if the profit motive can trickle down and still provide a rounded education, we might get some place.  Schools run by businessmen (businesspersons) who interview and vie for the most positively motivated teachers to be had.