Citizenship Test.

[tombogan03884]

I hope you understand that I  have no beef with folks like you and my BIL who followed the rules.
The "wink, wink, nudge, nudge," attitude toward illegal immigration is even more insulting to you than to those born here.

[Solus]

Welcome to America, Mericet.

I know it is belated, but just found out 

I'd say that by your presence on this forum, you have embraced the elements of Freedom and Independence guaranteed and protected by our Constitution, that we here cherish.

I have much respect for naturalized citizens.  All 4 of my grand parents were immigrants and they worked harder to gain their citizenship than those of us born here. 

Glad you are here to join us in our struggle to maintain those rights and ideals.

Take care.

[JC5123]

And thats the thing, its a fair test. There is a bit too much touchy feely stuff about stripes and stars, and the usefulness of the UN is anyone's guess. Still, most of the questions are fair and germain. What scares me is that an intro to American government class at UT Austin averaged about a 72% on this test.This should scare the crap out of you. Native born students in a conservative state barely able to pass?  No, we don't need to spend more money on teachers, talent doesn't follow money . Pay bottom dollar and expect top drawer result, Rush says its true, it must be so.
FQ13 who wonders when folks will realize that teaching basic civics is a good idea. 

Sorry, but that is really #$^*ing stupid. The problem is not that we are not paying them enough, hell most make way more than they deserve for the results they provide. They problem is tenure and unions. How hard would YOU work if you didn't ever have to fear losing your job and benefits?

[usmcdadx2]

"Sorry, but that is really #$^*ing stupid. The problem is not that we are not paying them enough, hell most make way more than they deserve for the results they provide. They problem is tenure and unions. How hard would YOU work if you didn't ever have to fear losing your job and benefits? "

Don't forget teacher bias either, too many of the current crop of teachers would rather teach/preach the prevailing liberal culture viewpoint than the actual subject matter. My oldest son spent quite a bit of time during high school in hot water because he would call out his "history" teachers when they would teach their “interpretations” of history rather than present the material. He even went to the point of calling one of his teachers, who was rewriting the American role in the south pacific during WW2 to suit his own antimilitary stance, an ignorant fool. He offered to take the teacher to the local VFW so he could learn the history he slept through while getting his degree. That one almost got him a suspension for “lack of respect”; when I heard about that I told the principal that I would be happy to have my son accept the suspension provided the teacher received corrective action for his "lack of understanding" of the material required to do his job properly. My son was not suspended.

[jnevis]

"Sorry, but that is really #$^*ing stupid. The problem is not that we are not paying them enough, hell most make way more than they deserve for the results they provide. They problem is tenure and unions. How hard would YOU work if you didn't ever have to fear losing your job and benefits? "

Don't forget teacher bias either, too many of the current crop of teachers would rather teach/preach the prevailing liberal culture viewpoint than the actual subject matter. My oldest son spent quite a bit of time during high school in hot water because he would call out his "history" teachers when they would teach their “interpretations” of history rather than present the material. He even went to the point of calling one of his teachers, who was rewriting the American role in the south pacific during WW2 to suit his own antimilitary stance, an ignorant fool. He offered to take the teacher to the local VFW so he could learn the history he slept through while getting his degree. That one almost got him a suspension for “lack of respect”; when I heard about that I told the principal that I would be happy to have my son accept the suspension provided the teacher received corrective action for his "lack of understanding" of the material required to do his job properly. My son was not suspended.

The oldest is having the same revelations.  It's taken her a couple years but she now follows the "trust but verify" motto.  Her teachers are REGULARLY found lacking.  Her history teachers seem to be the worst.  AP Gov and they spent the entire time collecting money for a school in South America.  US History and they spent two weeks on  Haight/Ashbury but only a class period on ALL of WW2.  This year she was told that the US has no significant exports to anywhere, but found out we're actually third in the world for exports of raw materials and agricultural products.

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

Which reinforces my point. Talent follows money. I've taught a whole lot of required intro to American Government classes at private and public schools. Here's one thing I'll tell you, the sharpest chisels on the bench aren't the education majors ( and what jackass made pedagogy a major, rather than an addendum to a real major like math or history?). Instead, you see the smart kids in engineering or the sciences or polisci/pre law or business. Eg, something that pays well, but demands talent. A starting teacher will make a little under $30k a year. A starting engineer will make a bit less than twice that. Where do you think the smart kids will go? You can't pay crap wages and offer poor working conditions and expect top talent. Its BS. Look, lets forget those in place now. Assume we want to phase them out by getting better teachers. Do you seriously think you're going to get top talent at current wages?
FQ13

[usmcdadx2]

Rant On

I don't necessarily agree that it is wholly a case of follow the money. Are they the best wages out there? No, but they are far from the worst and in most cases the benefits are well above local averages. You don’t have to be the sharpest tool to teach well if you teach the basic material. If you are not sharp enough to understand the material then you should never have received your teaching certificate.

 I see it more as accepted subpar performance because of the power of the teachers unions and active social engineering. These teachers are very good at teaching the “agenda”, they suck at teaching anything else. Then you get the unions and education groups that drive curriculums based on “studies” and “teaching theories from Berkley”. Case in point for the later, when my middle child was entering first grade our school system switched to “whole language learning”  as a way to teach reading, writing, grammar ect. This was pushed by the teachers unions and touted as the next great thing. By the time they dropped this wonderful program my son was in the fifth grade. His entire class, and the classes behind him were all subpar at grade level communication skills. The curriculum went back to more traditional approaches and the teacher’s and school system’s response to the students struggling to adapt amounted to “sucks to be you, work harder”. The fact that students were failing because they had failed to impart basic skills didn’t enter into their gestalt. There was no accountability, they all just washed their hands said “gee that didn’t work” and walked away from the mess they made. OK rant off.

[tombogan03884]

Lenin wrote "Give us the child for 8 years and he will be a Bolshevik for life".
The proof that FQ is wrong is the fact that our most"prestigious" schools are little more than socialist indoctrination centers.

[tt11758]

And thats the thing, its a fair test. There is a bit too much touchy feely stuff about stripes and stars, and the usefulness of the UN is anyone's guess. Still, most of the questions are fair and germain. What scares me is that an intro to American government class at UT Austin averaged about a 72% on this test.This should scare the crap out of you. Native born students in a conservative state barely able to pass?  No, we don't need to spend more money on teachers, talent doesn't follow money . Pay bottom dollar and expect top drawer result, Rush says its true, it must be so.
FQ13 who wonders when folks will realize that teaching basic civics is a good idea. 

It doesn't matter how much, or how little, teachers are paid if they still won't or can't teach civics.  Point being, in recent years civics seems to be seen as less important by the educational powers that be than it was when we were kids.  Throwing money at it ain't gonna solve that kind of problem.

[fightingquaker13]

It doesn't matter how much, or how little, teachers are paid if they still won't or can't teach civics.  Point being, in recent years civics seems to be seen as less important by the educational powers that be than it was when we were kids.  Throwing money at it ain't gonna solve that kind of problem.

Throwing money WILL determine whether I teach it or do research for lawyers.  I'd rather teach ,I mean I'm good at it and enjoy it. But $50k doing research vs $35k teaching? Well, you know where I'll be, as I have to pay the ammo bill somehow. The question is, do you want me teaching your kid civics, or the vegan  frat boy I gave a C- to last year? If you want me, it'll cost you (though I'll coach a rifle, fishing or canoeing club for free). Talent DOES follow money. Its an iron law of economics and all the right wing ideology in the world won't change that. The more highly valued a commodity, the more folks will offer for it in varying flavors. Education is no different than drugs, guns or anything else.
FQ13