What do we do?

[tombogan03884]

Solus, If it comes to the point you draw a gun "less than lethal" is no longer an option.
Any one who thinks other wise will probably die.

"He who hesitates is lost"

[Ping]

Sad topic of discussion. Kids need to learn to respect their peers, the elderly and the handicapped. Somewhere in Wisconsin is a parent who failed to swat their kids on the butt a couple of times...

[Badgersmilk]

Sad topic of discussion. Kids need to learn to respect their peers, the elderly and the handicapped. Somewhere in Wisconsin is a parent who failed to swat their kids on the butt a couple of times...

   Amen!   

[Solus]

Solus, If it comes to the point you draw a gun "less than lethal" is no longer an option.
Any one who thinks other wise will probably die.

"He who hesitates is lost"

I agree.  I was making that observation for DGF who seemed concerned with going right to lethality.

If I felt I needed to draw, I'd be hoping I was in time to clear leather, let alone issue any type of warning.

I don't expect a lot of time for most attacks, most likely not enough to give any kind of warning,  but in the "charging mob" scenario, you might have 30 or 40 feet to while away your time.

[Badgersmilk]

All fun making aside.  In as realistic a CCW scenario as I can imagine where I actually draw on anyone, I'm already going to be in hand to hand distance with them.  Which is why I get a laugh out of all the "OMG!  You have to have at least 15 rounds in your gun and a laser!".     Maybe I'm totally wrong.

[Sponsor]

[DGF]

I agree badger. I can't imagine a self defense situation where i would be shooting at more than a hand to hand distance. If they were that far away I would be running and evading, not engaging in a gunfight.

[Solus]

All fun making aside.  In as realistic a CCW scenario as I can imagine where I actually draw on anyone, I'm already going to be in hand to hand distance with them.  Which is why I get a laugh out of all the "OMG!  You have to have at least 15 rounds in your gun and a laser!".     Maybe I'm totally wrong.

How about multiple attackers at varying distances.  Five guys one nice and close and the other four acting as lookouts until the attacker needs help.

If you also feel that you will never have a need to use cover or move and fire from an unconventional position, like on your back with the target off to your weak side. then no, you only need to be able to handle what you in your flat footed practice at the range using conventional sights.

So why carry the extra weight of all those extra rounds.  One attacker, two rounds should do it.  One in the chamber one in the mag.

Shoot, if he is always gonna be that close, lose the sights altogether. Just a  pain to practice with and likely to snag.

[Badgersmilk]

Your absolutely right.  ANYTHING can happen.  And no telling what crazy position you may be shooting from.  I'm just playing the odds.  I carry an LCP (with a laser I'm probably going to remove), or on RARE occasion that I suspect it may be needed, a G30.

1.  I believe (and may be wrong!) any shooting over 15 feet is going to land you in jail for sure unless a crowd of a hundred see's the other guy draw on you first.  And yeah, unless they see he has a gun drawn, not a knife or anything else, I still believe your going to jail.

2.  I believe (and may be wrong!) Crowds of people in this country don't generally all spontaneously turn violent toward one person in their midst all that often.    (if you EVER see this...  Move to a better neighborhood for F sakes!)

3.  I believe (and may be wrong!)  I'm not going to need to shoot through a car windshield or body armor in "self defense" tomorrow with my ccw gun.  

4.  I believe (and may be wrong!)  It's not likely a gang of even the dumbest teenagers is going to watch 3 or 4 of their buddies get shot and not run like hell when your still holding the gun that did it in your hand.  They may be "gangsta's", but aren't totally suicidal, or, trained by KGB to kill you or be killed themselves.  

5. I believe (and know I'm right!)  Most people carry their ccw gun with paranoid visions of zombies attacking, a nuclear bomb going off and the whole world goes completely mad and turns against them personally, watch to many movies with absolutely ridiculous shooting scenarios in them, take the typical stupid american attitude of "Bigger is always better", and arm themselves accordingly (it's a "compensation" thing.  Little blue pills and all that.)

Last, but not least.  Situational awareness, and common sense lend themselves to my not having to rely solely on firepower to get me out of a bad situation.  BUT, one of the very few good things remaining about this country...  If you believe there's a need to carry a full auto 9mm with tracers, lasers, flashlights, a scope and (5) 32rnd magazines for ccw...  You can!  

I'm just playing the odds as I see them.  (the LCP is just about perfect imo)  

[2HOW]

with multiple attackers, you move to "stack" them , put them in front or behind each other. You must move fast.
You may need to retreat quickly. A deadly threat is a matter not taken lightly, it comes in many forms.

[Ichiban]

And, with multiple attackers, you might want to keep the boarding house rule in mind: Nobody gets seconds until everyone has gotten a first serving.  Since I usually don't carry a spare magazine, if the need arises I will have to stretch those nine rounds as far as I can.