NY Cops May Have Killed Bystander With One of 71 Stray Bullets, Last Weekend.

[twyacht]

http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/09/daniel-zimmerman/ny-cops-may-have-killed-bystander-with-one-of-71-stray-bullets/

NY Cops May Have Killed Bystander With One of 71 Stray Bullets
Posted on September 8, 2011 by Dan Zimmerman

In another example of apalling marksmanship by members of law enforcement, it appears that a bystander who was killed during one of the 52 shooting events that occurred in New York City over the weekend was probably killed by a stray round fired by an NYPD officer. This, in and of itself, isn’t terribly surprising given the population density of the five boroughs. What is notable is that, as nytimes.com reports, eight officers firing 73 bullets at one shooter managed to hit him only twice…

    The shooting on Monday erupted just after 9 p.m., when, the police said, Leroy Webster, 32, opened fire on Mr. Johnson, 29, in a dispute that escalated after an earlier confrontation the men had on Park Place, blocks away from the path of the West Indian Day Parade.

    As Mr. Webster fired several shots, the police said, Mr. Johnson was struck in the neck and fell mortally wounded.

    Several officers confronted Mr. Webster, who officials said ignored their orders and fired at them. Eight officers returned fire — in two distinct volleys — firing 73 bullets and striking Mr. Webster twice, in his chest and hip.

With 71 stray rounds careening through Crown Heights on a holiday evening, it’s a wonder only one innocent person was struck. It’s been determined the bullet that killed Denise Gay was not fired by the shooter’s gun. The NYPD has been less than definitive about what gun the bullet was fired from.

    Asked if a bullet fired by a police officer could have been the fatal shot, Paul J. Browne, the Police Department’s chief spokesman, said it could have been. “Was it one of the officers’ Glocks? Possibly,” he said. “Was it from the gun witnesses said Mr. Johnson had, but has not been recovered? Possibly.”

    The ballistics tests determined that the bullet that killed Ms. Gay, from a 9-millimeter gun, had markings consistent with those made by seven manufacturers’ guns, including Glock.

    It was doubtful whether the source of the shot that killed Ms. Gay would definitively be determined, even by comparing the slug to those from the Glocks fired by two officers, the police said, because of the generic markings the lead slug picked up as it passed through the gun’s barrel. Also, the round retrieved from Ms. Gay’s body was deformed.

But somehow it was possible to eliminate the shooter’s gun as the source. Odds that the final ballistics report will be ‘inconclusive’: 80%.

As we’ve said so many times before, it’s not easy being a cop. Not at all. No one expects someone returning fire at an active shooter to be perfect. Not with contributing factors such as fading light, adrenaline, a possibly moving target, etc. But a hit rate of less than 3%? Is firearms proficiency even a criteria to be one of New York’s Finest?

This sounds like the cops’ philosophy, rather than making every shot count, is more along the lines of spray and pray. That may work when you’re out in the middle of nowhere. But a shower of lead in a densely populated city is a recipe for disaster.

*****

Ooooppppss....

[Majer]

WAIT A NEW YORK MINUTE THERE!! as I recall we've been told that the Law enforcement community "NEEDS" to have a ballistic sample(fired case and /or bullet) of all guns sold so they can match it to the gun if it is ever used in a crime. Now they're saying that they can't match a bullet to the gun it was fired from? Something just isn't right here.

[jnevis]

WAIT A NEW YORK MINUTE THERE!! as I recall we've been told that the Law enforcement community "NEEDS" to have a ballistic sample(fired case and /or bullet) of all guns sold so they can match it to the gun if it is ever used in a crime. Now they're saying that they can't match a bullet to the gun it was fired from? Something just isn't right here.

No less than the Commisioner of the MD State Police has gone on record saying the Ballistic Fingerprint database the state requires has only proven an expensive waste of time and money.  Of course he was fired not long after that.

On another note, maybe if NYC spent more money on proficiency training for its officers than anti-gun "stings" out of state it wouldn't have been as bad.  Most cops I have worked with aren't exactly shooters.  They shoot when they have to and very little more.  Truly sad state really.

[Hazcat]

GUYS!!

Ya gotta remember it wuz over 3 feet AND they wuz skeered!

[TAB]

GUYS!!

Ya gotta remember it wuz over 3 feet AND they wuz skeered!

lol there was a shooting not unlike this one not to far from me at less then 25'.

3 guys  2 pistols 1 ar.  long story short, he guy with the ar emptyed it, reloaded and shot a few more times.  another emptyed 2 mags out of his glock.  the 3rd shot twice.   guess how many hits?



2, both from the guy that shot twice.  he hit him in the ankle and the wrist.     oh yeah these guys can legally carry in all 50 states... that give anyone else the chills?

[Sponsor]

[Solus]

I condemn the lack of discipline more than the lack of marksmanship.

[tombogan03884]

Should make them go back to revolvers.

[alfsauve]

Should make them go back to revolvers.

Are you dis'n revolvers?   Huh?   Huh?  Don't be puttin' down revolvers now.  I pretty much cleaned up all the  semi-autos with my lowly revolver firing single action in the pin shoot this week.    I know 8-9 seconds ain't blazin' but takin' out 20 pins with 21 shots ain't bad.

On second thought, maybe they would do better gettin' rid of those sissy plastic guns.

[tombogan03884]

Not dissing revolvers, would not be without a .357.
But they would only have about 1/3 as many rounds to fire indiscriminately.
It would make for a safer city.

[Solus]

Are you dis'n revolvers?   Huh?   Huh?  Don't be puttin' down revolvers now.  I pretty much cleaned up all the  semi-autos with my lowly revolver firing single action in the pin shoot this week.    I know 8-9 seconds ain't blazin' but takin' out 20 pins with 21 shots ain't bad.

On second thought, maybe they would do better gettin' rid of those sissy plastic guns.

Sounds like you were facing off against a bunch of these cops, Alf