Pincus on open carry

[Solus]

Just to introduce a bit of drift....

From one of M58's responses in this thread

"If I am in a C-Store with five other people and someone pulls a gun on the clerk I have no reason to respond with deadly force."

Anyone care to comment on this?

To me, if someone pulls a gun on someone with criminal intent, they have expressed their willingness to use deadly force....and they have the ability to carry that out in less than one second.

If someone pulled a gun and pointed it at me I would feel justified is using deadly force as soon as possible to stop that threat.  Thus, if I would feel justified in protecting myself in that situation, I would feel justified in doing so for someone else in that situation.

Now, that means it is justified, but would I get involved?  I have to say that I would. 

[tombogan03884]

If they are just after the stores money good luck to them, Stuff is insured, and it is not worth my time and the associated aggravation to kill some one over some one else's insured stuff.
on the other hand, the minute they start actually shooting they go down.

[JC5123]

If they are just after the stores money good luck to them, Stuff is insured, and it is not worth my time and the associated aggravation to kill some one over some one else's insured stuff.
on the other hand, the minute they start actually shooting they go down.

I agree, but let me add, that as soon as someone produces a weapon they have become a lethal threat, and I will take appropriate action. I cannot read minds and therefore I can't know that they don't intend to use said weapon.

There is a bit of a catch 22 here. If you wait till they start shooting to take them down, then you may be finding yourself being asked why you didn't act before an innocent was shot/stabbed/bludgeoned/whatever. Of course if you shoot first, then someone will inevitably paint you as a loose cannon.   

[Ichiban]

I would have to say - it depends.  Every situation is different and needs to be assessed individually. 

If the BG looks like he knows what he's doing and I feel that the likelihood of him resorting to violence (as opposed to just the threat) is low (IMO) then I'll hold the door open for him if it gets him out of there sooner.  Be a good witness and give the cops all the details you can.

If it looks like he will probably resort to violence (IMO), and I can engage him with an acceptable risk level (IMO) to myself and others, then I'll engage.

If he does engage in violence, then I will engage in the same.

YMMV.

 

[Solus]

I would have to say - it depends.  Every situation is different and needs to be assessed individually. 

If the BG looks like he knows what he's doing and I feel that the likelihood of him resorting to violence (as opposed to just the threat) is low (IMO) then I'll hold the door open for him if it gets him out of there sooner.  Be a good witness and give the cops all the details you can.

If it looks like he will probably resort to violence (IMO), and I can engage him with an acceptable risk level (IMO) to myself and others, then I'll engage.

If he does engage in violence, then I will engage in the same.

YMMV.

 

Just to be sure I understand.  You are saying that if someone holds a gun on you and you have a chance to draw and stop him, you will wait till you are sure of his intentions before you make your move?

[Sponsor]

[Hazcat]

Just to be sure I understand.  You are saying that if someone holds a gun on you and you have a chance to draw and stop him, you will wait till you are sure of his intentions before you make your move?

I am pretty sure Ichi is talking about being in a store that is being robbed.  Not being robbed himself.  EG third party CCW holder in a store where clerk is being held up.

[Solus]

I am pretty sure Ichi is talking about being in a store that is being robbed.  Not being robbed himself.  EG third party CCW holder in a store where clerk is being held up.

I think he is too, but I'll wait for him to confirm that.

[tombogan03884]

Calm and professional , like he does this every day, versus Twitchy and panicky ?

[JC5123]

I would be less worried about someone who was calm and professional. I think they would be much less likely to pull the trigger. They know the difference between armed robbery and murder. It's the nervous guy that I worry about. More likely to shoot someone by accident. That is when fear kicks in, and he ends up shooting everyone in the store.

[Ichiban]

I am pretty sure Ichi is talking about being in a store that is being robbed.  Not being robbed himself.  EG third party CCW holder in a store where clerk is being held up.

Yeah, I was following the "If I am in a C-Store with five other people and someone pulls a gun on the clerk I have no reason to respond with deadly force." comment with my thoughts on being is said situation. 

In general, the tweeker robbing the pharmacy worries me a lot more than the guy in coveralls and a mask robbing the bank.  As a third party CCWer the extent of my involvement would depend on how I read the situation.

It is a whole different ballgame if they are pointing the gun at me.

I was scared and fearing for my life
I was shakin' like a leaf on a tree
'Cause he was lean, mean
Big and bad, Lord
Pointin' that gun at me