Need some help...

[Magoo541]

Having a production background working in managment is becoming a liability.

Can you explain this statement?  I'm not quite sure how its a liabilty or to whom. 

[tombogan03884]

Companies want to hire college kids for office positions, many do not want some one who has come from a shop floor.
Mostly it's becuase they don't want the hassle of some one telling them they can not put holes 7 inches apart on a 6 inch part.

[Timothy]

I've been working for the last fifteen years for folks who have no clue how to make anything, yet, they will not take any advice from those of us that have.  Just got layed off and the owner was clueless, absolutely clueless but would not listen to anyone.  He thought he had all the answers already.

Can you explain this statement?  I'm not quite sure how its a liabilty or to whom. 

I thought I had but I'll try again.

This guy I mentioned WAS a purchasing agent who had a wealthy father in law that gave him a pile of cash to start a company.  He got lucky out of the gate and now thinks he knows the industry backwards and forwards.  It was a constant argument with this asshat because he thought he could WILL the business to succeed when in fact, it takes hard work and talent!

Two things that this lazy POS didn't have or want to posses.

I see this more and more in the industry, college boys with no experience trying to manage more talented and experienced people because "I have a diploma on my wall!"

Shop people and office people speak a different language, sometimes it's hard to translate!

[Timothy]

BTW, I've been through several LEAN training programs and Kaisan events or whatever you call them.  A few companies took them seriously and one just did it to earn a state grant of $30K or something.

I find that Lean Manufacturing for the most part is just common sense. 

The 5S or 6S (add safety) that they're using now is a philosophy that needs 100% involvement from manufacturing AND management or it will fail.  For the four companies I've worked with it, it has failed, miserably and at considerable cost to the company!

Common sense cannot be taught IMO, you either have it or you don't!  It's like leadership, some are born to lead and most are not, it's that simple.  Unfortunately, the guy that gets promoted these days is not the best candidate for the position, he's just the best ass kisser at the time!

[Magoo541]

....needs 100% involvement from manufacturing AND management or it will fail.

I agree and I am attempting to get managements buy-in because without it I am doing nothing ambitious.

 

Unfortunately, the guy that gets promoted these days is not the best candidate for the position, he's just the best ass kisser at the time!

I disagree.  I came to work here 5 years ago as a manual machinist to work swing shift.  Kept my head down making chips and never did make it to swing shift.  I had my run in with my supervisor, got wrote up for scrapping 25 parts in second op (BTW M6x1 and 14-20 taps look a lot alike when TiN coated and your pushing to get stuff done ) and was accused of having poor quality.  Might as well of accused me of cheating on my wife, because it wasn't the case then, nor is it the case now and I proved it over the next 6 months (didn't do anything different, they were just watching me).  Anyway I had an opportunity to work on a F'ed up job and was a key player to its success ($3 million job).  The new GM, bean counter, shut down the machine shop, fab shop, plastic shop and sheet metal shop and let all but 4 machinist go.  3 ended up in our Quick Turn Shop and I ended up on the Assembly Floor as a Lead Tech.  I applied for this Manufacturing Engineer position a year and a half ago and was denied.  Went back to school this spring and ask to be reconsidered for the position and got it in August.  No job description, that means anything, or guidance, just a title and a desk (ever feel like your being set-up for failure ).  So I am running with it to see how much I can change before they let me go 

[Sponsor]

[Timothy]

I agree and I am attempting to get managements buy-in because without it I am doing nothing ambitious.

 I disagree.  I came to work here 5 years ago as a manual machinist to work swing shift.  Kept my head down making chips and never did make it to swing shift.  I had my run in with my supervisor, got wrote up for scrapping 25 parts in second op (BTW M6x1 and 1/4-20 taps look a lot alike when TiN coated and your pushing to get stuff done ) and was accused of having poor quality.  Might as well of accused me of cheating on my wife, because it wasn't the case then, nor is it the case now and I proved it over the next 6 months (didn't do anything different, they were just watching me).  Anyway I had an opportunity to work on a F'ed up job and was a key player to its success ($3 million job).  The new GM, bean counter, shut down the machine shop, fab shop, plastic shop and sheet metal shop and let all but 4 machinist go.  3 ended up in our Quick Turn Shop and I ended up on the Assembly Floor as a Lead Tech.  I applied for this Manufacturing Engineer position a year and a half ago and was denied.  Went back to school this spring and ask to be reconsidered for the position and got it in August.  No job description, that means anything, or guidance, just a title and a desk (ever feel like your being set-up for failure ).  So I am running with it to see how much I can change before they let me go 

Yes, watch your back and keep your head down.

My problem lately is though I know enough to keep my mouth shut when I see a problem, I don't have the inclination!

Your GM sounds a lot like one I worked for a few years ago!  He had a Masters in Mech Engineering but never used it so he was essentially a bean counter!

I did the Manufacturing Engineer thing for several years and liked it because in order to do your job, you have to interface with the shop floor.  I had the respect of those men so they helped me succeed as I helped them to improve their processes.  My colleague, OTOH, had an ME degree and they hated him.  He failed so badly that they promoted him to Manager!

I'm not kidding....this guy was dangerous and he deserved to get fired but had an accomplice in the Plant Manager who also lied, swindled and pushed his was to the top from NDT inspector in QA...

Good luck....

[Magoo541]

Yes, watch your back and keep your head down.

My problem lately is though I know enough to keep my mouth shut when I see a problem, I don't have the inclination!

Your GM sounds a lot like one I worked for a few years ago!  He had a Masters in Mech Engineering but never used it so he was essentially a bean counter!

I did the Manufacturing Engineer thing for several years and liked it because in order to do your job, you have to interface with the shop floor.  I had the respect of those men so they helped me succeed as I helped them to improve their processes.  My colleague, OTOH, had an ME degree and they hated him.  He failed so badly that they promoted him to Manager!

I'm not kidding....this guy was dangerous and he deserved to get fired but had an accomplice in the Plant Manager who also lied, swindled and pushed his was to the top from NDT inspector in QA...

Good luck....

Thanks, I'm sure I'll need it! 

[tombogan03884]

Have you ever noticed that companies never seem to go out of business because they make crap ?
It's always because the management screwed up somehow.
I've worked for 2 companies that both treated their employees as respected members of the team, both had acceptance and on time delivery rates over 99%, both had huge contracts with major computer hardware firms, (Cabletron, and Lucent)
Both are gone.
However, 2 companies that treated the workers like sh!t, had so - so quality, and OTD rates between 40 - 80 % are still in business.

I have a theory about why, I want to see if you guys come up with the same one.   

[jnevis]

Companies want to hire college kids for office positions, many do not want some one who has come from a shop floor.
Mostly it's becuase they don't want the hassle of some one telling them they can not put holes 7 inches apart on a 6 inch part.

It isn't just in manufacturing.  I'm 3/4 throughthe design and test of a refit of an airplane right now and I have a guy that is fairly new out of college telling the guy that designed the original system that major components aren't necessary.  It will cost $5k per plane to remove the gear, $50-60K per plane to integrate the original gear with the new system, and $400k+ if they remove them and find they still need them.  Because of time and budget restraints we can't do a valid test to prove the system will work with or without the gear so it's coming out because "It works on paper."

Same guy showed up last week while I was doing a mod to a Fleet plane.  He had a "possible" solution to an existing problem.  He couldn't do the work (not allowed, pllus didn't know how to use the tools) so a guy from teh shop had to do it.  Told my counterpart that it was not going to go well for them, first thing in the morning, especially hearing "Oh, it's only a couple wires and jumpers.  Couldn't take THAT long."  12 hrs and 4 techs later they were still trying to straighten out the mess.

[tombogan03884]

It isn't just in manufacturing.  I'm 3/4 throughthe design and test of a refit of an airplane right now and I have a guy that is fairly new out of college telling the guy that designed the original system that major components aren't necessary.  It will cost $5k per plane to remove the gear, $50-60K per plane to integrate the original gear with the new system, and $400k+ if they remove them and find they still need them. Because of time and budget restraints we can't do a valid test to prove the system will work with or without the gear so it's coming out because "It works on paper."

Same guy showed up last week while I was doing a mod to a Fleet plane.  He had a "possible" solution to an existing problem.  He couldn't do the work (not allowed, pllus didn't know how to use the tools) so a guy from teh shop had to do it.  Told my counterpart that it was not going to go well for them, first thing in the morning, especially hearing "Oh, it's only a couple wires and jumpers.  Couldn't take THAT long."  12 hrs and 4 techs later they were still trying to straighten out the mess.

Computer modeling won't work ?