less than lethel options

[Majer]

In the flash mob thread it was stated that during a Flash Mob fight in a large mall none of the actors had weapons on them.If caught in a situation like this what would you use to protect yourself and family if your firearm is overkill?

[tombogan03884]

If it's a matter of protecting self and family a firearm is never overkill.

[Majer]

Tom, if no weapon is displayed then how would you justify using deadly force? This is just a "what if " type of discussion.In most places if you shot someone trying to get you or your family out of a large brawl you would be charged with murder

[tombogan03884]

Posted in the Flash mob thread :

There is legal precedent that numbers alone constitute a potentially lethal threat.
Being beaten to death with out a weapon is a fairly common cause of death in murder cases, far more common than death by gunshot.
If I am in fear for my life or the lives of others lethal force is the only reasonable resort.
Half measures will only increase the risk of injury to myself and others by prolonging the incident.

[JC5123]

If it's a matter of protecting self and family a firearm is never overkill.

I couldn't agree more. I am never unarmed. Even when I travel. I leave my carry piece at home when I fly, but I always have a Surefire with me. Though I'm surprised that the TSA hasn't banned that yet. Since it does have the serrated bezel for use as an impact weapon.

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

Even if I do not have a gun on me what ever I grab to defend myself with will be used with the intent of inflicting the maximum possible damage with the intent of either killing or crippling my attacker.
If you do not act with that mind set then you might as well not act at all because you will not be effective, you will merely piss off your attacker and cause the BG to take special pains in hurting you.

[Majer]

Tom,I agree with your statement about inflicting the maximum amount of damage.However, in the eyes of the law there is a difference in using a weapon of convenience and carrying only a firearm(at least in my state) ,The old saying about" if the only tool you have is a hammer then every problem starts looking like nails" applies. There is a thing called escalation of force and it applies with CCW in my state.I just think that we should look at other options available to us as it may save someone a lot of grief later on.

[Ichiban]

I will use the tools at hand - that usually means a weapon - if I feel that my life/welfare is threatened.  Disparity of force is enough for me to honestly fear for my life.  There is no such thing as a simple beating when a crowd/mob is involved.  You have to live through the encounter to even being to worry about charges.

Although, under certain situations I can see going to the knife first.  Cut a couple of the clowns across the forehead and there will be enough blood to freak-out the less committed mob members.  I consider that non-lethal force.

No gun?  No Knife?  Get creative.  Every situation is different.

[tombogan03884]

Tom,I agree with your statement about inflicting the maximum amount of damage.However, in the eyes of the law there is a difference in using a weapon of convenience and carrying only a firearm(at least in my state) ,The old saying about" if the only tool you have is a hammer then every problem starts looking like nails" applies. There is a thing called escalation of force and it applies with CCW in my state.I just think that we should look at other options available to us as it may save someone a lot of grief later on.

That's absolutely stupid.
If you are in fear of injury or death, a gun is the most efficient, effective, and practical solution.
If you are not in fear of injury or death then you have no excuse for initiating violence and will be in the wrong even if you slap the other person.

[Majer]

It may be stupid,BUT if it's the law you have to live within it. I think that it's stupid that my NY  State CCW is not valid in nycity,but theirs are valid upstate,However It's the law and I deal with it by not going into the city...Ever.The chance of it getting changed is about the same as You voting for obama in the next election.There are circumstance where less than lethal force is better than deadly force and it wouldn't be a bad thing to have that option.