Anyone make the transition to the FIST-FIRE method?

[devzal]

I fully agree with you that in most cases there will not be time to use your sights and as nice as they are most devices, lasers, night sights, what have will only see use at the range. Most will be lucky in not hitting themselves in the gut trying to clear their jackets.

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

Right...

Most people haven't ever done any FoF training with SIMS (or even Airsoft for that matter) so they really don't have a clue (no disrespect intended) in regards to what it's going to be like in a REAL street fight.

My eyes were opened back in the 90's. Back then, in a square range setting, with a 1-dimensional target with no arms or legs, I could draw pretty fast and kill the paper EVERYTIME using the sights, no problem.  I thought just because I had a gun and I could shoot pretty well, that I was a real Bad Ass!!     BUT BOY WAS I WRONG!! 

In FoF, the MMA guys would take my gun away from me and beat me with it everytime!!!   

Seemed like ANYTIME they got within 21' of me they'd usually end up with the gun. That sucked. That's what using the "Front Sight, Press" mentality got me.    My world was rocked at that point.

So, I began looking for other methods and I started shooting from retention FIRST. That's where I devleoped the "Guard" shooting position. That was the FIRST STEP.  That's where it all started, and it began evolving from there to what it is today. 

Cheers,

D.R.

[Snake45]

Bob Pilgrim wrote an article in June 2000 issue Combat Handguns and another in August 2002 Combat Handguns...

The name didn't ring any bells (I've been reading Combat Handguns for more than 20 years) so I googled it. Came up with a number of hits on his name with articles in SWAT magazine (which I haven't read since the early '90s). Any chance you're thinking of SWAT? Because I'm gonna have to move half my basement to find my 2000-2002 Combat Handguns, and I'm gonna be WAY pissed if it's not in there.... 

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

Try this link off my website:

http://www.tacticalshooting.com/news.html

It's all there...

D.R.

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

While D.R. Middlebrooks certainly needs no defense from me, having proved himself many times in the field and on the range, I cannot let some remarks and observations on this blog go unchallenged. First off, let me capsule my meager credentials. I am old enough to have been trained in every close quarters combat philosophy since the Applegate-Fairbairn techniques were taught to U.S. Marine Special Operation Capable units. While a police officer and SWAT team member, I was trained in the FBI system first developed by Col. Walter Walsh (no relation). Later, as an "A" class shooter, I used the "modern technique" as advocated by Cooper, et alii. In four decades of carrying a firearm (as a Marine, as a police officer, and as a body guard for a porn film producer) and in twenty years as a firearms and self-defense instructor, I found that real combat---whether in the jungle or in the back alley---was very unlike what happened on the firing ranges of Camp Lejeune or Hogan's Alley. Donnie Middlebrooks and I haven't seen or spoken to each other in more than twenty years, but let me assure you that this is a man with an ethos of personal integrity so powerful that duplicity or mendacity cannot exist in his world. He has taken a world-class skill at arms and developed a scientific methodology that not only works but lends itself perfectly to how human beings react to life-threatening events. If you have not been conditioned mentally you will either flee or freeze. If you have been trained, you will fight. If you have been trained by D.R. Middlebrooks, you will win.

B.C. is that you?   

Man, where does the time go...

I still quote you in every class I teach:

"What's the #1 Rule in a Gun Fight? Gun must be in hand BEFORE fight begins" - B.C. Walsh, 1980

Hey, remember the day Jeff Copper came to our range and asked about your qualifications "to even have an opinion on combat pistolcraft". You said something to the effect of this:

"Well, Jeff the only kills I have in combat were with a 1911 .45..." 

Man, was that back in the day or what?? 

Take care, Amigo!

D.R.

www.TacticalShooting.com

[Sponsor]

[Tim Burke]

I've reviewed the videos; the demonstrations are very impressive. However, I've found in FoF exercises you seldom are firing from your usual range stance. How do you achieve a repeatable index with a dynamically variable relationship between your feet, your torso and the target?
How long does it take to master the system? While phenomenal point shooting is clearly possible, I thought one of the weaknesses was the amount of practice needed to hone and maintain the skill. Most advocates of point shooting seem to accept a level of accuracy that I find unacceptable, but can achieve that with limited practice. From the videos, it seems that your system has a high standard for accuracy, so I wonder if you pay a cost in practice time.

[Snake45]

Most advocates of point shooting seem to accept a level of accuracy that I find unacceptable, but can achieve that with limited practice.

Tim, could you elaborate on this a bit? What is the level of accuracy that you find unacceptable? What level of accuracy DO you find acceptable in point shooting? I have my own ideas but would like to hear yours--and others'--before I share them.

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

I've reviewed the videos; the demonstrations are very impressive. However, I've found in FoF exercises you seldom are firing from your usual range stance. How do you achieve a repeatable index with a dynamically variable relationship between your feet, your torso and the target?
How long does it take to master the system? While phenomenal point shooting is clearly possible, I thought one of the weaknesses was the amount of practice needed to hone and maintain the skill. Most advocates of point shooting seem to accept a level of accuracy that I find unacceptable, but can achieve that with limited practice. From the videos, it seems that your system has a high standard for accuracy, so I wonder if you pay a cost in practice time.

It's not about foot position or stance. It's all about GRIP and INDEX...

And contrary to popular belief, we don't  use a "BODY INDEX" either. Never have, never will, as it's virtually impossible to body index while moving. 

As per the F-F book, it's all based upon "Optical Alignment and Kinesthetic Awareness".

FoF?  We've shot literally hundreds of thousands of rounds of SIMS (not Air Soft) in FoF using resisting opponents.  So, F-F has been thoroughly tested and endorsed by some of the Top MMA experts in the world. Nothing works better. We've proven it time and time again.

Practice?  Barb & I shot those video's stone cold.  We can do it because we can "re-create" the grip and index anytime, anywhere. There's a methodology to the teachings. It's totally bio mechanical. It's science pure and simple. 
 
Another example is Rick Simes. He is one of my best Fist-Fire Instructors. But due to his new job on Memphis PD, he hasn't had time to train in over a year. He just shot his first match in 1.5 years and won a Tri State Regional IDPA match. How'd that happen? 

In a word, "FIST-FIRE"... 


"Once the sword is made, all you have to do is keep it sharp." - D.R. Middlebrooks

www.TacticalShooting.com

[Tim Burke]

Snake-
My standard for acceptable accuracy in training is a softball size group out to 15 yards, down zero on an IDPA target (8") out to 25 yards, all hits on the torso out to 40 yards.

It's not about foot position or stance. It's all about GRIP and INDEX...

I'm still not sure how you reproduce it.

it's virtually impossible to body index while moving. 

Yeah, that's what I thought.

As per the F-F book, it's all based upon "Optical Alignment and Kinesthetic Awareness".

Well, I have the book on order.

FoF?  We've shot literally hundreds of thousands of rounds of SIMS (not Air Soft) in FoF using resisting opponents.

That's expensive.

Practice?  Barb & I shot those video's stone cold.  We can do it because we can "re-create" the grip and index anytime, anywhere. There's a methodology to the teachings. It's totally bio mechanical. It's science pure and simple. 

How much practice does it take to get to that point?
 

he hasn't had time to train in over a year. He just shot his first match in 1.5 years and won a Tri State Regional IDPA match. How'd that happen? 

That's pretty impressive.

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

How long does it take?  That depends on the persons willingness to learn and dedication to train...

I can show you how to build the house, but I can't build it for you.  Everyone learns at their own pace, but on average, it takes about 3 days to get established in Level 1 (Guard, Partial & Full Extension). And that's with good coaching.

Once the foundation is poored, the rest of the house can be built upon it.

The F-F book has 160 photo's on technique. It takes you up into Level 3 of the F-F System.

Cheers, 

DR

www.TacticalShooting.com