9mm vs. .40S&W, and a response

[ronlarimer]

I wrote the piece that MB quoted so it shouldn't be hard to see which side I come down on...  But this is an excerpt to a comment I made on one of the Mad Ogre's pro .40 posts...

In my response to your last post I conceded that if my choice is between a gun and 2 mags I want a .40. But if my choice is involves a center-fire training budget, you can’t beat a 9mm.

As for how many rounds it actually takes, the best collection of data I have been able to find is at http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866.

Average number of rounds until incapacitation

9mm Luger = 2.45
.40 S&W = 2.36
.45 ACP = 2.08

And unless you can tell me how to fire .08 of a round… Those all equal 3.

That gives a .90% accurate shooter with a 1911, 2 stops; with a .40, 4 stops; and with a 9mm, 5 stops.

I really do like debates and there may not be a better gun debate than caliber for the following reasons…

* There is a bunch of data that can be quoted
* There are so many variables at play that nearly all of the data is refutable based on the scenario
* It is a decision we bet our life on

Here are the 3 main facts though…

1) All Pistol Calibers SUCK! If you need a gun you want a long gun.
2) All Guns are better than harsh words or a sharp stick
3) All pistols/calibers are a collection of compromises

You need to decide that compromises you are willing to make.

I doubt you will find anyone on the anti-forty side that is truely anti-forty, we are all just pro something else because we believe it to be a better set of compromises.

[tombogan03884]

What matters isn't how many died after being shot with any caliber, but how soon they were stopped after getting shot.

Solus brings up a very good point.
In a SD situation the fact that your attacker died is considered a miserable fail if it happens 2 days after he beat you to death.

[Solus]

Solus brings up a very good point.
In a SD situation the fact that your attacker died is considered a miserable fail if it happens 2 days after he beat you to death.

It's a fail if your attacker dies 20 seconds after you do.

[tt11758]

There are two things I tell my students in regard to handgun selection for SD:

1)  Carry the largest caliber that you can consistently hit with and are comfortable carrying.
2)  The #1 best handgun for self-defense is the one you'll carry EVERY day.  A .22 in your pocket is a FAR more effective SD tool than a .500 S&W Magnum at home in the safe.


Another poster made a comment about the number of LE agencies carrying .40's.  In my home county, our S.O. recently switched from S&W M&P's in .45acp to M&P's in .40.  When I asked why, I was told that the "mission perameter" for their sidearms has changed.  The .40 allows the deputy more rounds to use in fighting his way back to the squad car to access his rifle.  To me, that sounds like a long-winded way of saying "handguns suck".

[Ichiban]

I would posit that those who are walking around baring scars from 9mms were shot with FMJs and most likely in extremities.  Shot placement is key and always use a good hollow point.

Hell, Tex Grebner took a .45acp and stayed mobile.  I hope his shot placement is better next time.

 

[Sponsor]

[PegLeg45]

There are two things I tell my students in regard to handgun selection for SD:

1)  Carry the largest caliber that you can consistently hit with and are comfortable carrying.
2)  The #1 best handgun for self-defense is the one you'll carry EVERY day.  A .22 in your pocket is a FAR more effective SD tool than a .500 S&W Magnum at home in the safe.


Another poster made a comment about the number of LE agencies carrying .40's.  In my home county, our S.O. recently switched from S&W M&P's in .45acp to M&P's in .40.  When I asked why, I was told that the "mission perameter" for their sidearms has changed.  The .40 allows the deputy more rounds to use in fighting his way back to the squad car to access his rifle.  To me, that sounds like a long-winded way of saying "handguns suck".

Just ask Clint Smith.   


Any given day, any given thing can go wrong...or right.

[GASPASSERDELUXE]

Any additional info available on the "9mm to the head?"

[jaybet]

Bounced off his Unibrow.

[twyacht]

Mr. Unibrow, looks like a "big boy",......thick Neanderthal like skull too....9mm probably just made him mad...

I am glad 9's have a high capacity, if I saw Mr. Unibrow in my house at 3am, it would take 1 17rd mag and most of another, and he would have to chase me, as I would be getting my Garand right quick.....

As posted what is with you, and works for you, is the most important. My leetle P3AT, would only make someone like Mr. Unibrow really mad, but it would slow him down just enough to where I can run him over in my truck....

twice..

 

[tombogan03884]

Any additional info available on the "9mm to the head?"

ARRGGHH !
 My Google - Fu is strong !     
Here's the link to the original post.

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=5252.0