George Zimmerman Charged

[Tyler Durden]

I am in Illinois so ... Hmmm... Yeah take what i have to say next with a grain of salt...  As i understand "stand your ground" laws, they were never meant to be a get out of jail free card.

What i get out of how they are written:

1.  You no longer have a duty to retreat nor do you have to show that you retreated prior to shooting

2.  Should it be determined to be a righteous shoot, you were immune or exempted from any civil action such as a wrongful death suit

3. To disuade car-jackings the idea of "your castle" was extended to include your vehicle, especially if you are occupying it at the time.

[MikeBjerum]

Tyler,

He was arrested, taken to the station, and processed.  He was under instructions as to how to stay in contact.  Remember the videos of Mr. Zimmerman being removed from the backseat of the squad car, being escorted into the station with his hands cuffed behind his back, and remember the photos from the police of him in an orange coverall?  If you saw the news conference yesterday you would have noticed the surprise in the media that the prosecutor knew where Mr. Zimmerman was.  Had the media payed attention to what they were being told in live broadcasts they would have known that law enforcement has known all along where he was.

Law enforcement took the time that night to look at the facts and weigh the evidence.  They determined that there was no reason to hold him.  

I am not saying that after taking the time to dig into everything that there is not a reason for charges.  But, it does smell fishy that Rev. Sharpton is a primary figure in the press conference.  Add to that the constant flow this week from Eric Holder concerning Federal Hate charges.  I smell hemp being oiled and twisted.

[MikeBjerum]

In Minnesota the Bill was written to leave the four conditions for deadly force to remain intact.  These include retreat not being an option.  We have never been required to retreat, but as a part of being an unwilling participant you must not be hanging around when you could be headed elsewhere.

Everyone gets hung up on the extension of the "castle" to other areas.  The key is that we don't need a castle, all self defense is based on self.  We can't defend something if we are not in danger our ourselves.  We are not, and would not be under our proposed, passed and vetoed Bill, allowed to use deadly force unless we are in danger of death or severe bodily harm.  The thing the paranoid anti's miss is that we aren't allowed to defend our house, our car, our boat, or our pansies.  We are only allowed to defend ourselves and those with us.

[Timothy]

Here's the law in MA as written today!  There is a bill to modify it to include other provisions to include "anywhere an individual has the legal right to be" and eliminate civil liabilities if the shoot was righteous.

Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.

You will be arrested and tried as I interpret this law but there was a case a few years back where a fellow shot and killed an individual who was actually attacking someone else in a hospital.  He was not arrested or indicted in the incident and he was in no danger himself when he killed the perpetrator.

It's all up to the prosecutor!

[JC5123]

You will be arrested and tried as I interpret this law but there was a case a few years back where a fellow shot and killed an individual who was actually attacking someone else in a hospital.  He was not arrested or indicted in the incident and he was in no danger himself when he killed the perpetrator.It's all up to the prosecutor!

Under our Castle Doctrine, I think you would be in more trouble if you DIDN'T shoot.

[Sponsor]

[lhprop1]

What about justice for George?  It's their job to prove the case, he doesn't even have to open his mouth again if he doesn't want to! 

Hopefully the jurors understand that. 

[MikeBjerum]

Hopefully the jurors understand that. 

It all goes back to our fundamental right that we are innocent until proven guilty.  This is why I am both pleased and perplexed that the Special Prosecutor went with Second Degree Murder for a charge.  This is a much more difficult case to prove than Manslaughter.  If Mr. Zimmerman's defense team is thinking they will play the Stand Your Ground legislation very low key, but demonstrate danger to life or severe bodily injury based on the injuries Mr. Zimmerman was treated for and the eye witness account of Mr. Martin being on top when the two were on the ground.  I would also like to see firearm experts experiment and find all the ways a semi-automatic handgun could fire one round and retain the spent case in the closed chamber.

Bottom line comes from out Pledge of Allegiance:  "... and justice for all."  Don't forget that Mr. Zimmerman is one of us, even though he does not have the Rev. Sharpton on his side.  Just think, if Mr. Zimmerman, being a mixed race hispanic, had been assaulted or killed by a white person, the Rev. Sharpton and Rev. Jackson would be surrounding his family and screaming for a lynching  justice 

[JC5123]

I was wondering about the charges also. My thinking is that they are charging the higher crime as a bow to pressure from the race baiters and the DOJ, with the intention of pleading it down.

[MikeBjerum]

My reading of the differences over the past week or so tells me that based on what we have been fed by the media, there is a very strong case for Manslaughter - When Mr. Martin finally turned and attacked and caused head injuries, it could have been due to Mr. Zimmerman following him (removing the burden of being an unwilling participant, and even if you throw out anything considering retreat you still need to remember that Mr. Zimmerman inserted himself in the situation.). 

The wild card in all of this is that Mr. Zimmerman was not only a member of Neighborhood Watch, but he was a leader in the group.  We do not know what the police leadership in this group taught and instructed.  This can possibly make a very large difference in the rules for use of force - If neighborhood watch has been instructed to try and document or have knowledge of where the person of concern is, this would in affect give Mr. Zimmerman justification for following Mr. Martin.

This will get interesting, and as Monday morning quarterbacks we will always know better than anyone else 

[Solus]

My reading of the differences over the past week or so tells me that based on what we have been fed by the media, there is a very strong case for Manslaughter - When Mr. Martin finally turned and attacked and caused head injuries, it could have been due to Mr. Zimmerman following him (removing the burden of being an unwilling participant, and even if you throw out anything considering retreat you still need to remember that Mr. Zimmerman inserted himself in the situation.).  

The wild card in all of this is that Mr. Zimmerman was not only a member of Neighborhood Watch, but he was a leader in the group.  We do not know what the police leadership in this group taught and instructed.  This can possibly make a very large difference in the rules for use of force - If neighborhood watch has been instructed to try and document or have knowledge of where the person of concern is, this would in affect give Mr. Zimmerman justification for following Mr. Martin.

This will get interesting, and as Monday morning quarterbacks we will always know better than anyone else  

This is true.

The truth could be anywhere to pure self defense by Zimmerman to near 1st degree murder attempt by the kid.

If Zimmerman was following but diligently maintained a 25 yd. distance at all times and the kid then went around a corner, ducked into a hiding place and Zimmerman followed after checking around the corner and was jumped by the kid....pure self defense on Zimmerman's part....and near premeditated attempted murder on the kid's part

If Zimmerman hustled to catch up with the kid, drew his weapon, grabbed the kid and told him he wasn't gonna get loose and the kid grabbed the gun and wrestled with Zimmerman and was shot and killed...gun not cycling because the kid held the slide....2nd degree murder by Zimmerman.

And LOTS of room in between....and perhaps no way to know what the truth is.