George Zimmerman Charged

[Pathfinder]

Solus, you've fallen into a number of traps, see bold below:

That's the point.  We don't know what happened to bring on the confrontation....and may never know unless an eye witness turns up.  Without any other eyewitness, Zimmerman's statement will be all that is entered into evidence.

It may be that Zimmerman went up to the kid, grabbed the kid by the neck put the gun to his had and tole him he was gonna be escorted out of the complex....the kid didn't like bing manhandled, grabed the gun and wailed on Zimmerman. - Conjecture

I am not saying that happened at all...but it is a possibility and it would put Zimmerman in the wrong...but there will need to be a witness.

The kid had every right to be there.  He accompanied his dad to visit his girlfriend and went to the store and was drinking an Ice Tea and eating some kind of candy on the walk back when the confrontation occurred.

Zimmerman said the kid was acting suspiciously by walking in the rain...probably slowly because his dad told h im to get lost for a half an hour.  

For some reason, they got close enough for the confrontation.  Unless Zimmerman saw the kid in the commission of a crime, he had no business closing to where they could grapple...particularly when he was armed. - Probably, but we do not know how the Neighborhood Watch folks have been coached by the police. One of many missing pieces

As far as police instructions, the police specifically told Zimmerman on the 911 call NOT to follow the kid.  Friankly I would not have obeyed those instructions either, if I had spotted someone acting suspicious.....BUT, as a citizen, I have no right to confront someone unless they are in the process of commuting a crime. - WRONG! The police did not tell him not to follow, a 911 dispatcher told him "we don't need you to do that". (BTW, our "police' dispatcher handles police for 2 towns AND 2 counties AND ambulance AND 2 fire departments. They are not sworn officers, so they ain't police.) Hardly the same thing. And since the gated community is effectively off limits to non-residents, and since Zimmerman did not know he was a "guest", and since Zimmerman was the leader of the Watch, not just a member, he had every damn right to confront Martin, especially in light of the numerous burglaries this year.

From what the kid's girlfriend said of her conversation with the kid while Zimmerman was following him, he noticed Zimmerman and was trying to get away from him.  If what she said is true. - This means nothing - a BG on the prowl for a score will do the exact same thing if they think they're being watched. And BGs have "girl friends" too.

To me with that being known, it appears the kid was trying to avoid the confrontation while Zimmerman seemed to be aggressively interested in what the kid was doing. - Part of Zimmerman's job description.

Now if I have to pick one of the two as the most likely instigator of the confrontation, would it be a kid visiting the neighborhood with his dad while walking down the street drinking ice tea and eating candy while talking to  his girlfriend on his cell phone or a member of the neighborhood watch who felt suspicious enough of the kid to call 911, report him as looking suspicious and following the kid against the recommendations of the police? - see previous comments

From all of that, I  put the odds on Zimmerman being more likely to have initiated the confrontation. - And just as likely that Zimmerman lost sight of Martin in some bushes, got out to find him and got jumped. Again, purely conjecture at this point.

All that could change if we know what happened to cause the confrontation.  Without that, there is no proof Zimmerman was the one to initiate and not the kid.  So Zimmerman would be found not guilty.

The kid might have a list of offenses from robbery to knocking up girls on welfare, but he wasn't doing a single one of them in Zimmerman's neighborhood (as far as the facts we have show). - We have a saying in IT - when you have 2 programs, and 1 accounts for 90% of the problems, where are you most likely to find the next problem? Statisitically, it ain't in the 10% program.

This is muddied somewhat since Zimmerman's background is not pristine either. Besides, what better place to boost high-priced gear than in a neighborhood you know, and can case while walking the street eating Skittles "minding your own business", and as an added benefit - you don't live there, so no worries about crapping in your own nest, so to speak.

Is it possible the kid was the aggressor?  Absolutely, but we have been given no information to lead to that conclusion.  It might exist, probably in Zimmerman's statement, but that statement hasn't been made public..rightfully so. - Nor anything to the contrary, not that Al "Tawana Brawley" Sharpton would ever volunteer such a thing.

As I said before, not much of what has been publicized matters..it all boils down to how the confrontation developed.   Unless there is another eye witness, Zimerman's statement will be facts in that matter. - Along with the forensics which seem to support Zimmerman at this point - so far as we know.

Stop thinking like the 10-year old choir boy the MSM and Sharpton have portrayed him to be, and start thinking like a perp. Not saying Martin was a perp, but looking at it differently provides a completely different - and reasonable explanation for what happened. Everything you said is true, and everything I said is true. Especially the conjecture part.

[MikeBjerum]

Probably, but we do not know how the Neighborhood Watch folks have been coached by the police. One of many missing pieces

Path posted this one in answer to many of Solus' questions and comments.

This is the major missing piece that I have been hanging most of my view of the defense on.  Not only was he a part of Neighborhood Watch and trained by local law enforcement, but there is a wide variance between how different communities educate and operate their Neighborhood Watch groups.  I am sure this will come into play during the trial, and it is one of the reasons ALL instructors must keep good records on their classes and students.  Another instructor that will most likely be called in is the person that signed the bottom line of the paper presented to get his carry permit, and if he had multiple state permits every instructor will most likely be called.

[philw]

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/zimmerman-apologises-to-trayvons-family/story-e6frfku0-1226335058847

Zimmerman apologises to Trayvon's family

AFTER more than a week in jail, George Zimmerman learnt yesterday that he will be granted bail on the second-degree murder charge he faces in the death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

Judge Kenneth Lester set Zimmerman's bail at $US150,000 ($145,600). Zimmerman will be placed on GPS monitoring.

Zimmerman arrived in court on Friday morning wearing a suit and handcuffs, with a chain across his waist. Also in the courtroom were Trayvon Martin's parents, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin.

Minutes before the judge ruled on his bail, Zimmerman took the stand and apologised to Martin's family.

"I did not know if he was armed or not," Zimmerman said of Martin, referring to the night of the March shooting. He said he was sorry for the Martin family's loss.

Asked why he had waited so long to apologise, Zimmerman said he had been told not to reach out to the family.

After brief testimony from Zimmerman, his lawyer argued that his bail should be set at $15,000. O'Mara cited Zimmerman's financial difficulties in arguing for the bail. He also pointed out that Zimmerman has co-operated with police.

Prosecutor Bernie De La Rionda argued that the court should consider that Martin had been "minding his own business" when he encountered Zimmerman and had not been committing a crime.

He asked for either no bail or a bail of $1 million.

State Attorney's investigator Dale Gilbreath testified earlier that there was video footage of Martin buying Skittles and iced tea before the shooting. He also said that Martin was unarmed.

Under questioning by O'Mara, Gilbreath admitted that the state has no evidence about who started the fight. There was also no evidence that Zimmerman didn't walk back to his car after chasing Martin on foot, as the defendant has claimed.

However, he said that Zimmerman's statements, as well as his description of the injuries he suffered, are contradicted by other evidence in the case.

As the hearing began, O'Mara surrendered Zimmerman's passport. Then members of Zimmerman's family began testifying by phone.

The accused's mother, Gladys Zimmerman, said she was concerned for her son's safety, as the family has received threats. She said her son had always been very protective of people, regardless of race, and had worked as a mentor for children in need.

Zimmerman's father, Robert Zimmerman, said he would take a second mortgage on his home to help secure his son's release on bail.

"I'm a disabled veteran, and don't have a great deal of income," the elder Zimmerman said. Of his son, he said, "I've never known him to be violent at all unless otherwise provoked, then he'd turn the other cheek."

with out reading all the threads about Zimmerman   have we worked out do we think Good shot or Bad shot?

[tombogan03884]

Good

[philw]

ok,  couple of weeks wait till court,

wonder if this will stop people being in neighbourhood watch??

http://www.news24.com/World/News/Trayvon-Martin-killer-pleads-not-guilty-20120424

Miami - The Florida neighbourhood watch volunteer charged with second-degree murder over the high-profile shooting of unarmed black teen Trayvon Martin entered a plea of not guilty on Monday.

"The defendant, by and through his undersigned attorney, enters a written plea of not guilty to the charges now pending against him," read a court document waiving George Zimmerman's right to appear at his 8 May arraignment.

The plea came hours after Zimmerman was released from jail on a $150 000 bond, pending trial, and driven to an undisclosed location after his lawyer requested that his whereabouts be kept private by the court.

Television pictures showed the 28-year-old, wearing jeans and a bulky brown jacket that appeared to conceal a bullet-proof vest, leaving a jail in Sanford, Florida shortly after midnight and stepping into a white car.

His release followed a dramatic court hearing on Friday in which he unexpectedly took the stand and apologised directly to the victim's parents, who dismissed it afterwards through a lawyer as insincere and "self-serving".

Prosecutors say 17-year-old Martin was simply "minding his own business" when he was accosted and shot dead by Zimmerman in late February after buying some candy and a bottle of iced tea from a local store in Sanford.

Racial profiling

Zimmerman maintains he was acting in self-defence as Martin assaulted him.

Martin's family and supporters allege he was a victim of racial profiling, and the case sparked angry demonstrations in black communities across the country when police initially decided not to press charges.

Sanford city commissioners voted on Monday to reject police chief Bill Lee's offer of resignation, meaning he will remain on administrative leave for the next three or four months, until an external investigation is completed.

Zimmerman, who surrendered his passport and is wearing electronic monitoring tags, is believed to have gone into hiding outside central Florida after receiving death threats over the killing of Martin on 26 February.

Martin's family said it respected the judicial process but were "devastated by him being able to walk the streets", attorney Daryl Parks told CNN.

"It's with a very, very heavy heart that they've seen him walk freely late last night back into the public," Parks said.

Sorry for loss

Zimmerman admits tracking Martin through a gated Sanford community after viewing him as suspicious, but insists he shot purely in self-defence after being assaulted.

Police initially declined to arrest him, citing Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law that allows deadly shooting if in self defence.

Zimmerman apologised to Martin's parents at Friday's hearing, telling them in his first public comments since the shooting: "I'm sorry for the loss of your son."

But the family expressed anger after the proceedings, both at the apology and at the judge's decision to allow Zimmerman to be released pending trial.

Prosecutor Bernie De La Rionda had urged the judge to deny bail or at least put it at $1m.

Judge Kenneth Lester ultimately set bail at $150 000 but imposed conditions including electronic GPS tracking, a dusk-to-dawn curfew and a requirement for him to report every three days to the authorities.

No direct evidence

Zimmerman had to post 10% of the bail amount, or $15 000, to make bail.

Dale Gilbreath, an investigator in the case, acknowledged at Friday's hearing that there was no direct evidence to say who threw the first blow in the confrontation, other than the fact Zimmerman had been following Martin.

If convicted, Zimmerman could face life in prison.

[Sponsor]

[philw]

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/0329/Trayvon-Martin-case-Three-key-questions-still-not-answered/What-was-the-condition-of-Trayvon-Martin-s-body

Trayvon Martin case: Three key questions still not answered
In the month since teenager Trayvon Martin was fatally shot by neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman in Sanford, Fla., the case has become a national sensation. Daily leaks favorable to one side or another have swung perceptions of the incident back and forth. Given what is currently known, what are the key questions on which Mr. Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence could turn, and which may be eventually answerable by evidence?

1. Was George Zimmerman hurt?

Mr. Zimmerman’s attorney, Craig Sonner, has said his client’s nose was broken in a fight with Trayvon. The police report of the incident, written up in the squad car that arrived in response, says Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of his head.

Yet police video taken Feb. 26, released to the news media March 29, shows an apparently uninjured Zimmerman arriving at police headquarters, hands cuffed behind his back. There are no bandages, no blood, and no swelling visible.

This question is important because it could help prove or disprove Zimmerman’s account of his encounter with Trayvon. He says Trayvon surprised him after he had returned to his vehicle, floored him with one punch, and then beat his head on the ground, according to the police incident report. A broken nose and cuts on the back of the head would be consistent with this account.

On the other hand, if Zimmerman were unhurt or not seriously injured it would call his truthfulness into question. Mr. Sonner said March 29 on the "Today" show that the video is “grainy,” and that his client could have been cleaned up in the squad car. But Trayvon’s family noted that in the tape Zimmerman does not look like someone who recently was fighting for his life.

“I believe that this video is icing on the cake,” said Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon’s mother.

It is likely that at a trial the facts could be established concerning the extent of Zimmerman’s injuries. Responding officers would have to testify about what the neighborhood watch captain looked like when they found him, and whether they offered him aid. As "Today" show host Matt Lauer noted March 29, there should be X-rays or other medical evidence if Zimmerman sought treatment for a broken nose.


2. Is 'DeeDee' telling the truth about the phone call?

Trayvon’s 16-year-old girlfriend has been identified in the media only as “DeeDee.” She has said she was on the phone with Trayvon in his final moments. He said he was being followed and was trying to get away, in her account.

In an interview with ABC News published March 29, DeeDee said she heard Trayvon turn around and ask someone why he was following him. She heard someone say, “What are you doing around here?” or words to that effect. Then she heard someone pushed to the ground before the connection was severed.

She also said she has not been interviewed by police.

Cellphone records should establish whether this phone call occurred, and when. At a trial, prosecutors should be able to determine whether DeeDee is telling the truth about the timing of the phone call, in relation to the timing of the altercation. While that won’t prove that her account of the conversation is true, it would be a point in her favor. And DeeDee’s account could be disproved if the cellphone records don’t match up.

ABC News reported March 29 that it had obtained phone records showing that DeeDee called Trayvon at 7:12 p.m. on the day he was killed, five minutes before police arrived, and remained on the line until moments before he was shot.



3. What was the condition of Trayvon Martin's body?

While much attention has focused on whether George Zimmerman showed evidence of a fight, less has been said about the condition of Travyon Martin’s body. Forensic evidence should be able to establish whether he participated in a hand-to-hand fight with Mr. Zimmerman. At the least he would have sustained bruising to his own hands and body consistent with an attack, if Zimmerman’s account is true.

Gunshot evidence should also offer some rough guide as to his and Zimmerman’s relative positions when he was shot, although there are limits as to what this would tell detectives in regard to Zimmerman’s veracity.

According to CBS News, Sanford police officers interviewed at least six witnesses in the wake of the killing. None saw the beginning of the fight, or the gunshot, according to CBS News. But their stories, compared with the hard evidence generated by attempting to answer the previous questions, could provide a context bearing on what happened.

Much about this case remains mysterious, of course. Did Trayvon really tell Zimmerman that “you’re going to die now,” as Zimmerman’s father, Robert Zimmerman, said in an interview with a Florida TV station aired March 29. How could the lighter Trayvon pummel the much heavier, older Zimmerman, as the latter maintains?

Sanford police have now turned the case over to local prosecutors, who are in essence reinvestigating the evidence to see if Zimmerman should be charged. The FBI has begun a civil rights investigation. If there is a trial, real facts bearing on answers to the above questions will be produced.

Currently, the Trayvon Martin killing is being litigated in the court of public opinion. Amid the cacophony, it’s worth remembering that George Zimmerman’s fate may ultimately be determined in a court of law.

[Bic]

Here's an intersting article from those evil racist right wingers at Reuters

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

Hat Tip: Dutchman6. (get well soon)

MP

[tombogan03884]

Here's an intersting article from those evil racist right wingers at Reuters

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

Hat Tip: Dutchman6. (get well soon)

MP

Long, but worth reading.

[rojawe]

From the Desk of:
L. Brent Bozell, President
Media Research Center

May 3, 2012

Dear Roger,

NBC News has been caught again.  A second edit of the George Zimmerman 9-1-1 call was discovered and a reporter was quietly let go, but NBC has yet to apology to their viewers.

NBC has now fired three people from two different offices over at least two different edits of George Zimmerman’s now infamous 9-1-1 call prior to the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. Both edits were clearly designed to portray Zimmerman as a racist while raising tensions in an already volatile situation.  This latest firing from NBC once again goes unexplained.  The Media Research Center went on the record after uncovering their first edit that NBC is a network out of control point that their two-sentence (non)apology hidden on their website, was an insult.

The truth has been withheld from NBC’s own viewers now for more than one month.  Do the network executives at NBC think that this is acceptable? What about the board and shareholders of Comcast?  Is it acceptable for a news organization to consciously and constantly lie to its viewers?

NBC News president Steve Capus admitted that they "probably" should have apologized on-air; NBC still has yet to do so. Even the local NBC affiliate that doctored the clip has fired the offender and apologized and retracted on-air.

Please take a moment to contact the Board of Directors at Comcast - NBC’s parent company - and tell them to clean house!  If you’ve already called, emailed or written board members - please do so again!

NBC is playing with fire by altering these tapes to serve their liberal agenda. Racial tensions are being inflamed causing a dangerous situation across our country.

Tell Comcast’s board that you demand a full apology, new leadership and honest reporting from NBC. Otherwise Comcast’s reputation will be sullied by NBC’s irresponsible actions.

Thank you for standing with us,

[Mjolnir]

Because they didn't arrest the guy in the beginning, and for the month that nobody outside the local media/community knew about it, I think it was a "relatively" clean case of self defense. I'm curious about why the Head of the Dept stepped aside though, unless he saw this mess headed his way..

This and the fact that the police told Martin's parents that the reason they didn't arrest Z was because of his "clean record". LIES. He has been described as "Jekyll and Hyde" by a precious co-worker where he was fired for too aggressive behavior.he had been arrested and charged with Domestic Violence and had a DV Restraining Order issued against him as well as Resisting Arrest with Violence. Obviously, his father - retired VA Magistrate - intervened to have the charges reduced/dropped but the Restraining Order stuck. So tell me? HOW COULD HE EVEN HAVE A GUN, MUCH LESS CARRY?

There were three other witnesses: Te girl/young woman who had been on the phone with Trayvon and two others who called 911. None were involved before deciding to cut Z loose.

There had been complaints - some files with the Sanford PD - about Z's "aggressive" watching of persons he thought suspicious - all Black according to some.

Now it's been alluded to that the current police chief was hired to assist mending the sore racial history/relations with the minority community. Who were the officers involved? We're they involved in the investigation? And why is it the Chief wishes to step down? What does he know?

So as a gun owner I won't jump to the man's aid. He made ONE/ maybe TWO HUGE errors: he had NO NEED to continue following T and the Dispatcher reiterated this to him. He then pursues Trayvon when the kid runs. WTF? Trayvon is on the phone according to his girlfriend and she hears the earbud drop, two screams and a gunshot.

I have no evidence that Z woke up with murder on his mind. I do think he INITIATES the conflict by his actions. Trayvon had every right to stand his ground, too.

And didn't his father live in that community? Or was it adjacent to that community?

If u ask me George's father and the DA and Prosecutor had some conversations - again - to keep his none too bright son from crashing and burning.

Yes the Black Community has been shat upon since... The Beginning so there is COLLECTIVE Anger. I understand.