Author Topic: Our System Is Broken  (Read 3548 times)

MikeBjerum

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Our System Is Broken
« on: May 04, 2012, 01:16:23 PM »
and it is our own damn fault  >:(

http://www.startribune.com/local/150193555.html

The day after convicting Amy Senser of Vehicular Homicide Jay Larson, a juror, is holding a press conference at the local cafe.  Let's all go get on a jury, so we can create our fifteen minutes of fame and cash in on a million bucks.  How would you like to serve on a jury, and then read this in the paper, see it on the evening news, or hear it on the radio?

By the way, I have met this guy, and my personal opinion of him was pretty low prior to this incident.  I will most likely be seeing him in a little over a week unless Mr. McReavy places him on unemployment prior to that.  Jr. is pretty proud of the family business and its reputation, so an employee that deals with confidential information for families pulling a stunt like this does not speak well of the company integrity.

If I appear taller than other men it is because I am standing on the shoulders of others.

tombogan03884

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Re: Our System Is Broken
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2012, 01:44:18 PM »
In his book "Roughing it" Mark Twain had the following opinion of jurors:

"Alfred the Great, when he invented
trial by jury and knew that he had admirably framed it to secure justice
in his age of the world, was not aware that in the nineteenth century the
condition of things would be so entirely changed that unless he rose from
the grave and altered the jury plan to meet the emergency, it would prove
the most ingenious and infallible agency for defeating justice that human
wisdom could contrive.  For how could he imagine that we simpletons would
go on using his jury plan after circumstances had stripped it of its
usefulness, any more than he could imagine that we would go on using his
candle-clock after we had invented chronometers?  In his day news could
not travel fast, and hence he could easily find a jury of honest,
intelligent men who had not heard of the case they were called to try
--but in our day of telegraphs and newspapers his plan compels us to swear
in juries composed of fools and rascals, because the system rigidly
excludes honest men and men of brains.
I remember one of those sorrowful farces, in Virginia, which we call a
jury trial.  A noted desperado killed Mr. B., a good citizen, in the most
wanton and cold-blooded way.  Of course the papers were full of it, and
all men capable of reading, read about it.  And of course all men not
deaf and dumb and idiotic, talked about it.  A jury-list was made out,
and Mr. B. L., a prominent banker and a valued citizen, was questioned
precisely as he would have been questioned in any court in America:

"Have you heard of this homicide?"

"Yes."

"Have you held conversations upon the subject?"

"Yes."

"Have you formed or expressed opinions about it?"

"Yes."

"Have you read the newspaper accounts of it?"

"Yes."

"We do not want you."

A minister, intelligent, esteemed, and greatly respected; a merchant of
high character and known probity; a mining superintendent of intelligence
and unblemished reputation; a quartz mill owner of excellent standing,
were all questioned in the same way, and all set aside.  Each said the
public talk and the newspaper reports had not so biased his mind but that
sworn testimony would overthrow his previously formed opinions and enable
him to render a verdict without prejudice and in accordance with the
facts.  But of course such men could not be trusted with the case.
Ignoramuses alone could mete out unsullied justice.

When the peremptory challenges were all exhausted, a jury of twelve men
was impaneled--a jury who swore they had neither heard, read, talked
about nor expressed an opinion concerning a murder which the very cattle
in the corrals, the Indians in the sage-brush and the stones in the
streets were cognizant of!  It was a jury composed of two desperadoes,
two low beer-house politicians, three bar-keepers, two ranchmen who could
not read, and three dull, stupid, human donkeys!  It actually came out
afterward, that one of these latter thought that incest and arson were
the same thing.

The verdict rendered by this jury was, Not Guilty.  What else could one
expect?

The jury system puts a ban upon intelligence and honesty, and a premium
upon ignorance, stupidity and perjury.  It is a shame that we must
continue to use a worthless system because it was good a thousand years
ago.  In this age, when a gentleman of high social standing, intelligence
and probity, swears that testimony given under solemn oath will outweigh,
with him, street talk and newspaper reports based upon mere hearsay, he
is worth a hundred jurymen who will swear to their own ignorance and
stupidity, and justice would be far safer in his hands than in theirs.
Why could not the jury law be so altered as to give men of brains and
honesty and equal chance with fools and miscreants?  Is it right to show
the present favoritism to one class of men and inflict a disability on
another, in a land whose boast is that all its citizens are free and
equal?  I am a candidate for the legislature.  I desire to tamper with
the jury law.  I wish to so alter it as to put a premium on intelligence
and character, and close the jury box against idiots, blacklegs, and
people who do not read newspapers.  But no doubt I shall be defeated
--every effort I make to save the country "misses fire."
"

Tyler Durden

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Re: Our System Is Broken
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2012, 04:32:39 PM »
I was a jury member at a court martial once.

a jury nowadays consists of the 12 dumbest or laziest people who couldn't get out of jury duty.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7CBKT0PWFA&feature=youtube_gdata_player


deepwater

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Re: Our System Is Broken
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2012, 12:24:49 AM »
I was a jury member at a court martial once.

a jury nowadays consists of the 12 dumbest or laziest people who couldn't get out of jury duty.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7CBKT0PWFA&feature=youtube_gdata_player



HA! 12 Angry Men, excellent movie. never been on jury duty, never been called or received a letter, must be too outspoken.

deepwater
YOU CAN TEACH A MONKEY HOW TO RIDE A BICYCLE: BUT YOU CAN'T TEACH HIM HOW TO FIX IT!!

Ping

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Re: Our System Is Broken
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2012, 07:50:57 PM »
Yep.

Been called and responded. So far I have not had to sit in.

As for a court-martial, I did testify in one for a Training Instructor who was abusing Basic Trainees. The Staff Sergeant was convicted, lost his stripes and sent to Fort Leavenworth. He was a great instructor, just mean.

Sponsor

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Re: Our System Is Broken
« Reply #5 on: Today at 08:54:19 PM »

CJS3

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Re: Our System Is Broken
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2012, 09:39:42 PM »
I get a jury summons every two or three years. Picked at random my ass! ???
Children, pets, and slaves are taken care of. Free Men take care of themselves.

Timothy

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Re: Our System Is Broken
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2012, 10:27:07 PM »
I get a jury summons every two or three years. Picked at random my ass! ???

It's like that up here as well.   Once you've been picked, you're more likely to be chosen again.  Don't ask me why.

The one time I was chosen, it took me twenty minutes to get through the metal detector at the courthouse!  I have a hip implant, my face is 50% metal (I think cobalt chromium or titanium) and I have a few internal screens in my arteries to stop blood clots.

Solus

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Re: Our System Is Broken
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2012, 01:32:48 PM »
I had a couple of incidents that made me wonder...

While talking to a poll worker one morning ready to vote early, he mentioned that he was always the first one to sign the voting roster for the precinct where we were.

Months later a guy I knew mentioned that he gets called to jury duty every year for many years in a row.   I happened to remember him telling me he was also a poll worker some time ago, so out of curiosity I asked him if he voted first at his polling station and he said yes.

I knew the jury roster was taken from the eligible voters somehow, so I called the board of elections and asked about the process...

It seems the court will give them a number of folks they expect tn need to be on the jury roster...allowing for all the necessary extras.

Then the board of elections figures out how many folks that is out of the usual voter turnout.   Then they decide the jury roster will need 1 out of 100 people for example....have no idea how accurate that ratio is...

To get them they use the voter rosters from the last election cycle.  In this example, they would take the 1st voter, the 101st voter, etc. on each voter roster and send those names to the jury roster.

Turns out that if you are first on the roster from your polling place, you get picked every time.  Other positions would be pretty random.

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
—Patrick Henry

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
— Daniel Webster

Timothy

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Re: Our System Is Broken
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2012, 03:03:00 PM »
In MA they take the jury pool from the DMV.  If you have a drivers license, you're in the pool.  They changed because folks wouldn't register to vote when they took the pool from registered voters.

MikeBjerum

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Re: Our System Is Broken
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2012, 02:15:35 PM »
Quote
The attorney for Amy Senser has subpoenaed a local television station for raw footage of jurors from Amy Senser's criminal vehicular homicide trial.

http://www.startribune.com/local/west/150959205.html

Wait for it!!!
If I appear taller than other men it is because I am standing on the shoulders of others.

 

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