Stop using the Army for your liberal social experiments!

[BAC]

http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-us-drill-sergeant-competition-20120704,0,6522586.story

Army drill sergeants emphasize importance of thinking, teaching in contest to identify best

BROCK VERGAKIS Associated Press

3:18 a.m. EDT, July 4, 2012
NEWPORT NEWS, Va. (AP) — Army Staff Sgt. Jeffrey Heilman kneeled down in a wooded section of Fort Eustis and calmly told six soldiers he had never met before to prepare: They might find an improvised explosive device on their way to relieve some other soldiers at a checkpoint.

"If you encounter an IED before it explodes, make sure you don't make a ruckus. Don't scream," Heilman said as the young soldiers listened intently. "Remember someone put that thing there. They're trying to kill you and if you react to it and they know that you reacted to it, they're going to try their best to get whatever result they can. You might be running away from it but they're still going to blow it up and try to catch you."

Less than a foot away, an evaluator from the Army's Training and Doctrine Command stood with a clipboard in hand and listened to every word Heilman said, evaluating whether he had the right leadership and critical thinking skills to be named the Army's Drill Sergeant of the Year.

Noticeably absent from the test scenarios last week were any of the yelling, screaming and order-barking associated with drill sergeants in popular culture. To be sure, Army drill sergeants can still instill fear in new recruits. But as the Army focuses more on developing the critical thinking skills of its soldiers and less on rote memorization and one-size-fits-all training, some of their top drill sergeants say bellowing is a last resort.

"I really consider myself a new generation of drill instructor. I mean, unless you do something really, really out of place I don't think there's any need to do the whole yelling and screaming," said Staff Sgt. Danneit R. Disla, who is part of the 98th Reserve Division based in Rochester, N.Y. "I just think if you talk to them like a person, like a man, they will act like a man, like a grown man."

There are about 2,400 drill sergeants in the active duty ranks and about 3,000 in the Army Reserves. Six drill sergeants spent the past week in a physically and mentally grueling competition to win top honors in their division, writing essays, answering questions and marching for miles with 50 pound rucksacks on their backs, all the while never knowing what's coming next.

Heilman was named the winner Friday. He will spend a year assigned to the Initial Military Training Center of Excellence, part of the Training and Doctrine Command, where they will help shape the future of the Army. The new breed of drill sergeants means a quiet and unassuming soldier — who can still be vocal when he or she needs to be — is just as effective as the classic drill sergeant.

Sgt. 1st Class Adam McQuiston, who is based at Fort Leonard Wood, Mo., acknowledged being shy before becoming a drill sergeant. He said he's fought that by constantly leading and teaching new recruits, but that doesn't mean he has to be loud.

"Maybe there's a time for the screaming and yelling and constant pushing, but you also need to be that expert trainer at those skills they're going to need out of basic training," McQuiston said.

Part of the drill sergeants' evaluation focused on what they would do if a trainee refused to do as they were told. One drill sergeant tackled the scenario by simply saying "let's talk" and listening to the recruit and then providing mentoring.

The top drill instructors, who each won competitions at the posts where they're based, say being a trainer who excels means finding a way to relate to individual soldiers who come from a variety of backgrounds.

"You have to realize that not every single trainee that you deal with is going to be the same. They're all not all going to relate, take the information the same and relate the same," said Staff Sgt. Jarod Moss, a reservist from Dallas who is part of the 95th Reserve Division based at Lawton, Okla. "Look at it as a different way to teach it."

Underscoring the importance of being able to relate to soldiers, the drill sergeants were evaluated on the correct actions to take in response to a role-playing soldier who was suspected as suicidal.

Among other things, the drill sergeants were also evaluated on how to move soldiers under fire to cover and then return fire, how they would teach soldiers how to enter and clear a room and how to conduct a medical evaluation.

"You don't really just want the most physically fit, or just the smartest. It's got to be a very well-rounded, intelligent, articulate individual that's going to get through this. Much like our basic training has changed from being a mindless basic training, really all about blind obedience, to more of teaching them to think and make decisions under stress," said Command Sgt. Maj. John R. Calpena from Fort Eustis. "In the fight they're in they can't be looking back for the sergeant to know what they're going to do when they come under fire in a marketplace. They have to make a decision, shoot or don't shoot and report. Same with our drill sergeants."

That's not to say physical endurance isn't still important.

On the third day of the competition following a run through an obstacle course filled with ditches, walls and cargo nets similar to the ones recruits go through, McQuiston was so exhausted that he vomited.

Heilman, who is stationed at Fort Jackson outside of Columbia, S.C. and is originally from Philadelphia, complained of having blisters on his feet the size of half-dollars.

"My feet are pretty much just nubs, but I'm able to push through it. Pain, shmain. I don't care. It's a competition," he said during a brief break. "I'm just going to keep pushing until they tell me I have to stop or until I fall over and stop, but I'm not going to quit."

I'm surprised none of the DIs said "You have to pick your battles."  What's next?  Everyone gets a trophy at the end of basic.  If a soldier doesn't meet the requirements they still pass, because the Army doesn't want them to feel bad about themselves.  No more soldier of the cycle award, because you're all winners!

Pisses me off.  At least we still have the Marines.

[Timothy]

http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-us-drill-sergeant-competition-20120704,0,6522586.story

I'm surprised none of the DIs said "You have to pick your battles."  What's next?  Everyone gets a trophy at the end of basic.  If a soldier doesn't meet the requirements they still pass, because the Army doesn't want them to feel bad about themselves.  No more soldier of the cycle award, because you're all winners!

Pisses me off.  At least we still have the Marines.

Actually, that's been going on for years.  They've greatly reduced the physical requirements for some of the armed forces in order to cater to the lowest common denominator!  It started when I was in basic in 1975 or earlier.  It's why you have 5'0", 90 to 120 lb soldiers, sailors, airmen and even Marines of both genders.

[Pathfinder]

http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-us-drill-sergeant-competition-20120704,0,6522586.story

I'm surprised none of the DIs said "You have to pick your battles."  What's next?  Everyone gets a trophy at the end of basic.  If a soldier doesn't meet the requirements they still pass, because the Army doesn't want them to feel bad about themselves.  No more soldier of the cycle award, because you're all winners!

Pisses me off.  At least we still have the Marines.

The Marines do. It's called the EGA and they earn it - not awarded - at the end of The Crucible!

[jnevis]

All of the Services have some form of award for graduating Boot.  Marines get to wear the EGA, Sailors go from a Recruit ballcap to one that says Navy for example.  The Marines have been "mentoring and guiding" vice yelling for a while now too.  They are finding they get better results.  My CCs didn't yell and scream at us while our sister company was always being cycled and screamed at.  They had a bunch of failures and wash-outs and we had the highest average scores for the PT and knowledge tests.

[Timothy]

Hell, my CC was a Senior Chief of some sort and he wasn't a hard ass by any standard.  Our DI's or whatever you call them in the Navy weren't too hard on those that toed the line either but they were hard on those that stepped out or over the line.  We were a company of techy geeks and of those 76 young men I went to boot with, I've never seen or heard from any of them since.  Do the Marines still train and move on as a cohesive company of men?  I don't know...the Navy was different in that you'd probably never see those men again!

I did what I was told and helped those sailors that asked for help because I'd had a father and two brothers that had gone before me!  I knew what to expect, what to do and how to get through boot.  Physically, it wasn't much harder than JV football practice but the mental stuff could get to some guys.  I did well enough to get a meritorious promotion to E2 and about 5 bucks more a month in pay...a lot less than I was charging to spit shine a pair of boondockers!

 

[Sponsor]

[BAC]

OK, so I guess I didn't phrase it properly.  My remark about everyone getting a trophy was in reference to little league.  You know, leagues that don't keep score (because you're all winners!), and at the end of the season everyone gets a trophy (because you're all winners!).  Or the Junior High school in my town, that has 30+ members on the cheerleading squad.  Why?  Because everyone who tries out makes the team (because...).  My bad.

So you guys are Ok with a DI having a chat and some coffee cake with a recruit that disobeys an order?  'Cause nobody mentioned that.  That's the part that got my blood pressure up.  Interesting.

[Timothy]

So you guys are Ok with a DI having a chat and some coffee cake with a recruit that disobeys an order?  Interesting.

No! I'm not!  

Sorry if it seemed that way.  I was just suggesting that it's nothing new though it appears to be getting worse.  I would have never considered having a heart to heart with my DI in boot.  After that though, you're expected to use the chain of command, starting with your immediate supervisor who may or may not be your friend.  I wasn't in the "regular" Navy so my personal experiences were far different than most sailors.  We were a very, very small community.

[BAC]

No! I'm not!  

Sorry if it seemed that way.  I was just suggesting that it's nothing new though it appears to be getting worse.  I would have never considered having a heart to heart with my DI in boot.  After that though, you're expected to use the chain of command, starting with you're immediate supervisor who may or may not be your friend.  I wasn't in the "regular" Navy so my personal experiences were far different than most sailors.  We were a very, very small community.

Phew!  That's a relief.  I was starting to think I was on the wrong forum.  I went through BCT in '81 and the DIs were still pissed they couldn't touch the recruits any more.  One guy who had a real discipline problem did "fall" down the stairs once, though.  I guess the coffee cake didn't work.   

[Solus]

My DI in Army Basic was Sgt. Golding.

We learned early on that he was doing the best he could to make us the best we could be.  I know it sounds like a recruitment poster, but it was true.

I am sure he had to "dress down" someone in the platoon, but I do not recall the event.  He did yell at those not moving fast enough...telling them to "pick it up" or "hustle" or what ever by name.  And he would be on your tail till you didn't give it your all.  But I don't remember him ever "shaming" one of us.

We has a guy in our platoon, named Slywinski or something.  The DI called him Slick Whiskey.  The guy was thin and could never stay in step.  The DI would remind him regularly to pay attention.  One day, Slick Whiskey broke down and started crying.  The DI pulled him out of ranks and gave us an About Face.  I peeked and he had his arm around the guys shoulder, I guess explaining what the DI's purpose was with training new troops.

I don't know if he did any good, but Slick Whiskey bucked up and did somewhat better....and there were very few NCO's or Officers I came to respect more than Sgt. Golding.  

This was in June of 1965.

[tombogan03884]

Senior Drill instructor 1st Sgt Rainy, His motto was "You may not be the sharpest platoon to ever graduate Parris Island, but you will damn well be the fittest."
This was explained to us, ( and every other person on PI who was not deaf or dead ) while we enjoyed the educational benefits of  push ups, "until he got tired".
We took every one of the inter platoon competitions.