Water Rights...

[tombogan03884]

First of all, it doesn't say how big those 3 ponds are.  By definition, a "pond" can be any body of water up to 19 acres (actually 8 hectares to be exact), regardless of depth.  3 "ponds" can be a lot of water. 

Secondly, the issue isn't him having the retention ponds to collect rainwater.  The issue is that this guy thinks he can divert a tributary of a decent sized river that supplies water for a town to fill his ponds.  Not only that, but he was fined for it before, he knew it was wrong, and he still continues to do it.

Yeah, one person diverting a stream for their personal ponds probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference, but if this guy can do it, why can't his neighbor and his neighbor's neighbor and so on.  If that happens, civilization is beholden to the few who "own" the water supply. 

In other words, .gov.

[jnevis]

That's my take on it as well.
The water in my pond is in my pond, or ponds, or the cattle born on that land belong to the State.. What's the difference between the water in a pond and the water in a well?
Permits are required for anything I've ever done to house or land. To date, I've never gotten one. It's not their business.. If I get caught in process, I'll say I thought xxxx or whatever and deal with it then, but I don't take well to being told what I can do on my own land, and saving the rain that falls on it isn't hurting anybody.
I can't get to a place where I can see believing that I owe the State for rain..
Just my opinion...

But this jacknut DID get caught, not once but TWICE.  The first time the State told him to stop and he did, but as soon as he wasn't being watched decided to do it again.  Did he really think he wasn't going to get caught?  Did he expect to only get probation the second time?  

How do you know what he was doing wasn't limiting the water available to the rest of the community?  We have areas that are growing to the point that it is expected that they will not have drinking water in about 5 years.   The cost of water is rising due to demand and lack of supply.  Pretty sad considering I'm surrounded on three sides by water, just nothing drinkable.  

[tombogan03884]

Pretty well sums it up I think

[santahog]

http://kirbycenter.hillsdale.edu/pages/first-principles-archives/kcls---steven-hayward---the-epa-and-private-property

This is a lecture on the EPA and private property..

(I realize that we're not all talking about the same thing, but .gov can't control the rain or snow falling on my land, before or after the fact..)

[lhprop1]

(I realize that we're not all talking about the same thing, but .gov can't control the rain or snow falling on my land, before or after the fact..)

Under no circumstances is it ok for .gov to tell you what you can with rain or snow that falls on your property.  That's absolutely perposterous. 

I've been arguing that the guy has no right to divert a stream that flows through his property for his personal use. 

[Sponsor]

[TAB]

Just a fwiw, for all of you that think you own your land and every thing about it.  You may want to check the paper work for your property.   often you don't own water rights( either full or partial) or your mineral rights.   it should be in the paper work you signed when you bought the place.    there is often provisions for you waving your right to sue for diffrent prexhisting things.   that could be anything from noise, to smell.

[Magoo541]

So my FIL has a spring fed pond on his property that doesn't feed any stream, is he breaking the law?  It is "the people's water" after all.  Maybe not a perfect analogy but having lived in Oregon for the past 10 years and heard the fighting from down south between everyone and .gov there is no doubt that .gov is way out of line.  BUT they vote for them so they deserve what they get.

[rojawe]

Here is a link to the Foxnews article about the USDA promoting “Meatless Mondays”.  Please read it carefully.
 
See:  http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/26/usda-under-fire-for-backing-meatless-mondays-linking-ranching-to-climate-change/
 
 

The USDA newsletter said it was an “international effort” and “[t]he production of meat, especially beef (and dairy as well), has a large environmental impact.  According to the U.N., animal agriculture is a major source of greenhouse gases and climate change. It also wastes resources.”
 
 

Tell me, what international effort supports this viewpoint?   The answer is Sustainable Development/Agenda 21!
 
 

Remember the words of Maurice Strong, UN Secretary General:  “...current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class - involving high meat intake, use of fossil fuels, appliances, home and work air conditioning, and suburban housing are not sustainable.”
 

[Pathfinder]

Under no circumstances is it ok for .gov to tell you what you can with rain or snow that falls on your property.  That's absolutely perposterous. 

I've been arguing that the guy has no right to divert a stream that flows through his property for his personal use. 

And yet it was state law in Colorado until just a couple of years ago, when another one of these cases popped up - and the landowner won, forcing the state - which got a lot of seriously bad publicity - to back down and amend the law.

[tombogan03884]

Back in the 60's a friend of my Dad had a gravel pit.
He hit a spring so he dug it out as a pond, the outlet ran into a culvert that handled run off.
He graded the sides nicely, even stocked it with fish.
One day a guy from the state came by and was giving him a bunch of crap because while he was digging it out the back tires of his backhoe were in the water.
He went and got a Boat plate and put it on the backhoe, when the officious turd came back he told him to go f*ck himself since he was legal.
Weird, but legal .
Another time some State A hole was giving him grief , he says "who does this water belong to, me or the State ?"
The State guy says, "it belongs to the state".
My Dads friend told him to get the states water the hell off his land or he was going to sue them for interfering with his gravel business.
That was another problem that went away.  
This guy never finished 8th grade, but you did not want to tangle with him unless you seriously knew what you were talking about.
Another time a town tried to shut down a pit that he had bought as a working gravel pit.
It cost him a million dollars but the State Supreme Court ruled in part that town ordinances do not have the force of law, only the State Govt. has the authority to enact laws, Town ordinances are merely an expression of a preference.
That may be different in other States, it would depend on how the State Constitution is worded.

And special for TAB, In the 14 States that were colonies, or parts of colonies the land owner retains all mineral rights.
That may have been changed in the former Confederate States, but I don't think so, other wise how would Jed Clampett have gotten rich off that oil ?