Author Topic: I guess this explains all the DHS Ammo Buys...  (Read 6332 times)

jnevis

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1479
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I guess this explains all the DHS Ammo Buys...
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2013, 02:24:23 PM »
OK, 1.6 BILLION rounds divided by 220,000 (DHS total force is over 240,000 according to thier website) equals 7272 rounds divided by 5 is 1450 rounds per agent per year, 120 rounds a month.  That's pistol (including simunition), rifle, and shotgun total.  I shoot that in a weekend.
When seconds mean the difference between life and death, the police will be minutes away.

You are either SOLVING the problem, or you ARE the problem.

brushmore

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 251
  • NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: I guess this explains all the DHS Ammo Buys...
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2013, 03:48:21 PM »
My take on this wants I did the math on all the number is just how massive the federal government has become.  1.6 billion is a huge number but when you start dong the math the numbers per agents/departments seem reasonable.  The scary part is the size of the government, not the size of the ammo order.

Respen33

  • Packing IT guy
  • Forum Member
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • What round is 30 rounds if you cant hit the paper.
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I guess this explains all the DHS Ammo Buys...
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2013, 06:04:37 PM »
It isn't the event but the timing. Sequestration and reduction in budget, anti gun laws flying all over. Obama's mouth spouting what the office can't create via executive order.

I got an idea! Lets:
1) buy up as much high popular rounds of ammunition as possible! They get priority over consumer purchases so less on the streets.

2) our buying will increase demand thus spiking prices, reducing total sales and maintaining manufacturing taxation levels if not increasing it.

3) resellers and manufactures will self limit purchases to consumers to maintain stock. Limiting how much a person may purchase at any given time.

Makes rather perfect sense to me. Regulation through economics.

3)
When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. - Thomas Jefferson

jnevis

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1479
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I guess this explains all the DHS Ammo Buys...
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2013, 06:37:58 PM »
Part of the reason this is getting so much visibility is DHS was eight different agencies prior to 9/11 that each ordered thier own equipment, ammo, and other supplies.  They really haven't grown more than 10% from pre-9/11 numbers but when they stop doing things as eight agencies and do them as one, the numbers get big enough people notice.

A little more gov't contracting 101:
We'll use ammo as an example, if each DHS agency lets a contract for ammo for 750,000 rounds of 40SW and the bids come in at $1.3495/rd or $1.3995/rd (Cabelas online price for Federal Guard Dog or Dakota PowrBall 40SW) but since it's such a large order both manufacturers knock 10% off the price. They can't just send a check to Federal for the $912K and call it good.  That money has to be appropriated by Congress in one bill, then authorized in another.  Once the money is allocated by Congress, it must be sent to DHS as part of thier budget then passed to the agencies.  There is a "pass through fee" of say .05% that DHS uses to pay the salary of the financial management specialist that handled the money, thier manager,  those people's occupation fees (building maintenance costs/lights/water) and any IT fees to connect to the internet.  Before all eight agencies did this individually so the orders were relatively small but the fees were the same for each contract.  Now DHS make a bigger single order, so now the manufacturer instead of 10%, discounts it 15%.  Also there is only one pass through instead of eight so the overall budget cost is much lower.  
 Think of it as Costco.  You buy a box of 1000 paper plates for $3 instead of 5 boxes of 200 for $1.50 each with the sales tax being .30 or .75 respectively IF your wife lets you have the checkbook.

One other thing is that cost is constant for the life of the contract, so if next year Federal decides to raise the commercial price to $1.39/rd due to inflaton or increased cost DHS is still only paying $1.147/rd

These contracts take a minimum of a year to two years to get from the request to the final winning bid being awarded the contract.  This stuff won't be made for another year after that.

Another piece of the puzzle you may not realize but most of the DHS components changed calibers about a year or so after DHS came to be.  They had to let contracts for new weapons, but still had to maintain stocks of the old ammo (9mm) until all the new guns were in the inventory which again was a four to five year contract.  Then you have to retrain all your agents with the new gun before you can put it in the field.  Now they are getting to the point where the old ammo is gone and the new ammo from the first contract is getting depleted, so if you look at it that way, it IS Bush's fault ;D
When seconds mean the difference between life and death, the police will be minutes away.

You are either SOLVING the problem, or you ARE the problem.

tombogan03884

  • Guest
Re: I guess this explains all the DHS Ammo Buys...
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2013, 08:40:07 PM »
I think JNevis is crazy .
What he is saying is impossible since it would involve the US Govt actually saving a few bucks.
I'd sooner believe in Sasquatch.

And before he blows a gasket and has a stroke or something I will admit to just a leetle bit of sarcasm.   ::)

Sponsor

  • Guest
Re: I guess this explains all the DHS Ammo Buys...
« Reply #25 on: Today at 04:57:20 PM »

jnevis

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1479
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I guess this explains all the DHS Ammo Buys...
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2013, 09:01:11 PM »
I think JNevis is crazy .
What he is saying is impossible since it would involve the US Govt actually saving a few bucks.
I'd sooner believe in Sasquatch.

And before he blows a gasket and has a stroke or something I will admit to just a leetle bit of sarcasm.   ::)

I will admit to being a little crazy (but not to my DR)  ;D

My old  gov't customer reminded me constantly that right or wrong we are legally obligated to spend all of the money allocated to us.  If we can make smarter decisions on how the money is spent the better. 
When seconds mean the difference between life and death, the police will be minutes away.

You are either SOLVING the problem, or you ARE the problem.

tombogan03884

  • Guest
Re: I guess this explains all the DHS Ammo Buys...
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2013, 11:14:16 PM »
When I was in the Marines I spent a few months in Co. supply.
Imagine my surprise when I caught hell for ending the quarter with a surplus .   ;D

Tyler Durden

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: I guess this explains all the DHS Ammo Buys...
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2013, 12:56:33 AM »
are you saying DHS has 220,000 employees and they all shoot?

are there 1811 (job code) special agent positions within DHS?

are the 1811's the only ones who carry guns?

years back when I was 36, I was applying to DSS, which is like the US Secret Service counterpart, but for the State Department's VIP's and embassies .  I suspect that the number of 1811's with DSS or with State is actually very small compared to the entire count of their employees.

IIRC, other agencies like the Agriculture Dept, the Labor Dept, and even the Postal Service have their own 1811's, too.


Tyler Durden

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: I guess this explains all the DHS Ammo Buys...
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2013, 01:02:54 AM »
where's all their brass go:



I had a cop friend who I used to shoot matches with tell me that training was non-existent for them.  They qual'ed like once or twice a year.

To go to training would mean that somewhere else during that pay period, that cop or cops would end up with a shift with a lot of overtime tacked onto it.

Mayors and chiefs are reluctant to shell out the bucks for overtime.  My friend went on to tell me that the mayors and chiefs produced more PR when the police cruisers were actually out driving around in town. Basically, they were paying for the cops to be visible.  Being at the range = NOT visible .


jnevis

  • Top Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1479
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: I guess this explains all the DHS Ammo Buys...
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2013, 09:10:08 AM »
Even if only half of DHS caries a gun, that still only works out to be 220 rds a month.
Even using that number, breaking it down further based one the percentages, you're looking at 150 pistol, 60 rifle, and 10 shotgun rounds.  That is training and duty rounds, so 36-45 rounds on the belt, a mag for the M4, and a full shotgun are in the car.  The rest is used for training.  It may not be used on a monthly basis so its reserve, then taken to the range for qual.  Like I said before it must be used by the end of the year, no surplus.

Is it REALLY that hard to figure out?
When seconds mean the difference between life and death, the police will be minutes away.

You are either SOLVING the problem, or you ARE the problem.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk