Bob Barr Exploring Presidential Run as Libertarian

[Pathfinder]

Well, now, understand that I am not trying to rekindle this discussion. However, in today's news:

Barr picked as Libertarian presidential candidate
By Jose Luis Magana, AP

DENVER (AP) — The Libertarian Party has picked former Republican Rep. Bob Barr to be its presidential candidate after six rounds of balloting.

The party is meeting in Denver.

Barr beat research scientist Mary Ruwart, who was the party's presidential nominee in 1983 and vice presidential candidate in 1992. Barr left the Republican Party in 2006 over what he called bloated spending and civil liberties intrusions by the Bush administration.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-05-25-barr_N.htm

[Ron J]

I was flipping through channels and saw their convention was covered on CSPAN.  I can see the interest in Barr swelling.   

[Rastus]

The Three Stooges.  They all eventually mean the same things...their differences are in quantity and temporal execution.

The lesser of three evils is evil, none-the-less.

For all the damage done with the borders, the dollar, government spending, the DC vs. Heller sellout, etc...I think we would have gotten the same thing or worse with Gore, had our noses rubbed in it, been outraged, would have been done with it 3 years ago and be merrily rebuilding stronger than we are now.  If in that scenario with Gore as president all had been lost and we were not able to crawl out of a bad position it says something about where we are now as a nation and this current "voting thing" is just an academic exercise. 

Our base is weaker now than it would have been with a Gore because going in to this election we now have a less friendly government (more bad guys in Congress), seen our Administration stack more of the bad guys in offices of influence, saw spending go through the roof, we're hearing green nonsense (not the real stuff, OK.), the dollar will soon be reChristened the Peso (for 2 reasons), and our courageous military needs critical funding, what gives do you ask?  Seven years of the lesser evil may not right now be as bad as 4 years may have been with Gore....but I suspect 10-12 years of lesser evil (Bush-Bush+McCain) will be equivalent to 4 years of Gore but with with the insidious twist of being desensitized to change, having more young people programmed to the left, and we as a nation will not be able to express outrage when outrage is due (like now with the borders and don't say we successfully expressed outrage and accomplished something when we really did not because nothing has really been fixed or changed so....so much with the effectiveness our insufficient outrage and indignant expression but hey, if it makes you feel better then we are bad, we did tell them off "they know I won't put up with that, by golly".... a great hollow victory with more to come via the voting the lesser of evils). 

At 10-12 years into the "lesser of evils" we'll be more desensitized and far more vulnerable to loss.  We'll have a greatly diminished ability to turn things around.  Our enemies abroad will be stronger, much stronger, both in military prowess and economic strength.  The U.S. moral foundation will be further eroded (this is the great tragedy).  Our advantage of having the U.S. dollar as the standard of currency for the world is being lost and that directly translates into a poor economy and standard of living in the future as our dollar begins to look and feel more like the peso.  The dollar's pre-emminence in the world economy has not been figured into our ability to be a strong economic engine and it is flawed to perceive that any economic recovery in the future will be so swift, strong and long-lasting as we have seen in the past 50 years as our dollar, yours and mine, is pushed aside for yuans, dinars, euros, marks and such.   

Every day of my life has been under threat of nuclear annihlation...just over 1/2 century.  Since the end of Reagan's terms the threat has been diminished greatly...I like it that way.  Anyone coming of age before 1985 it can be much worse than it is now.

We will likely end up with the "lesser of three evils" in November.  After the joy and elation of "winning" again try to remember to reread this thread in 2012 and re-evaluate your basis for reason in 2008.

[Rastus]

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Col. Jeff Cooper

[Ron J]

Rastus!  Great read for this beautiful Memorial Day! 

In “theory”, I agree (Tom has his defibrillator charging) that a shock is needed to get America back on track.  I was not happy with George H.W. Bush; I was miserable with William Jefferson Clinton and have not been all that pleased with much of George W. Bush either.  As Haz would likely say, this country needs to wake up and smell the cat food.  It does appear that we are sliding slowly down into a hole that is getting “progressively” (pun intended) larger in every passing day. 

However, the crux of my disagreement is that I am not willing to bet that a “theory” can serve as an object lesson in conservative values.  These lessons need to be worked and groomed by all of us.  Clichés like “need another Carter to get another Reagan”, “gotta hit the bottom before you can move up” or “sometimes you have to burn down your house to build a new one” are just sayings that border on insanity given the dangers Obama brings in this election.  When someone says to me “in theory” something can work I will reply “in theory” communism and time-travel seem to work pretty well too.  In reality, not so much.  Too much at stake for betting on theories. 

Instead of shock treatment, I would hope that people get involved and actively teach and practice conservative values.  This will be easier (and a lot safer) to do with John Sidney McCain as President than Barack Hussein Mohammad Obama.  Phone calls, letter writing, blogging, writing newspapers, TV and radio programs, attending political events … making your voice and values heard is what is needed.  My 82+ year old mother handwrites and mails letters all the time.  When Clinton was president, at least once per month and often once per week she would crank out a letter telling him what a morally bankrupt person he was and that he is a complete disgrace to the country.  In every letter, she would urge him to resign and to “take that asshole Al Gore with you”.  No different with George W. Bush.  She writes him once a month begging him to fix the borders.  Will say that if Obama gets elected, my mom will have a whole lot of new writing material. 

We simply don’t know if we could have shocked the country into returning to its original conservative roots and values by electing either Gore or Kerry yesterday anymore than we think that we can shock the country’s values today if B-HO gets elected tomorrow.  As to leadership and whom we are electing, IF you think that had we elected Gore or Kerry that we would have seen a change and now would have a “true conservative” as our political leader or “savior” …  to whom would that person be today?  I don’t believe any new conservative figure would have morphed into the political arena that we haven’t seen already.  We would be on the same stage with the same “stooges”.   

As well, I think it is critically important that we do not give the left any momentum.  “Merrily rebuilding” will be much more difficult to do under liberal leadership or following liberal leadership.  We will find that hole is getting deeper and overcoming such momentum more of a challenge.  In short, we don’t need another Carter to realize how he weakened our country and how much time and money it cost Reagan to restore and rebuild America. 

I sincerely don’t want to bet that we will get the “lesser of three evils” in November given that Barack Hussein Muhammad Obama has a real chance of being elected as President.  Too much at stake for our country to lose with Obama as president.  Voting for Barr or any other 3rd party candidate that has no chance in winning is one less vote that McCain needs to beat the “greater of three evils”, Obama. 

[Sponsor]

[CJS3]

Third Party candidates, only have no chance of winning if they don't get voted for. Conceiding defeat  before the contest, ensures eventuial defeat.

[Ron J]

CJ, you are absolutely right!  3rd party candidates will never get elected if the people here in America don’t vote for them. 

And that’s the point.

We may like the platforms of 3rd party candidates but these candidates do not have the traction and support of the American people to win both the popular and the Electoral College vote.  Now if they did, this is a whole different argument.  But as we stand today, unless there is a miracle between now and November, no 3rd party candidate is going to win the Presidential election.  All they will do is draw needed votes away from some other candidate that is on the ballet. 

Our next president will be either Barack Hussein Muhammad Obama or John Sidney McCain. 

[Rastus]

I appreciate your thoughtful and polite remarks; civility allows for productive social discourse despite being at odds.  I sincerely hope you are right and that I am absolutely and completely wrong.  I feel strongly, because of evidence, there is no substantial down-the-road difference in the top three candidates and that in the long run the result of choosing "the lesser of evils" is that we have only postponed the inevitable suffering my children will endure. 

It is, I think, appropriate to repeat without citation that, "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."  That is to say, if locked into supporting only those who are electable our battle has been decided and we have only to ponder what has led us to defeat.

........
We will likely end up with the "lesser of three evils" in November.  After the joy and elation of "winning" again try to remember to reread this thread in 2012 and re-evaluate your basis for reason in 2008.

[tombogan03884]

" Rebuilding  merrily " will not involve liberals (Socialists) as they will be deported to Cuba, China or some other "Workers Paradise" Nanny state. The loss of conservitive values is directly atributable to the influx of liberals into the educational system in this country and the 50 years of indoctrination of students by teachers and an education association that are blatently socialist, pushing the agenda of foriegn organizations like the UN.
First they removed prayer from school, this has led to a loss of morality. Then they removed "corporal punishment from school, this led to a loss of discipline among students and teachers lost control of their class rooms. They removed the Pledge of Alleigence, from schools and we have seen a steady decline in Patriotism. They removed competitive testing from school and we have seen a decrease in actual learning, it is being replaced with social indoctrination, that is why American schools turn out so many "Activists" and protesters and so few engineers.
This is what you get with "the lesser evil". It took the Jews 2000 years to regain THEIR nation, the Irish had to fight for 600 years, do you wish to leave THAT legacy to your children ?

PS I burned the crap out of myself when the difibrilator arced out on my .45 

[Rastus]

......
PS I burned the crap out of myself when the difibrilator arced out on my .45 

Tom, sometimes you need to leave the 1911's at home and go with polymer frames just to be safe. 

I knew there was another reason other than needing two in 45 and "I wanna" to get that M&P 45......

Always learning something new from other's experiences on this board!