Bob Barr Exploring Presidential Run as Libertarian

[DesertMarine]

A few years ago, I checked the INS website for regulations for obtaining work permits and residency in the US.  Quite a few ways to do it but at each page INS had a note stating that they were backlogged and waiting periods were over two years.  Imagine what the waiting period is now, that waiting periods between 3 and five years.  If a person has a degree, doctor, lawyer and such it is easier to get residency or if your occupation is needed here.  For the ordinary person, no such luck.  INS needs to be fixed, the backlog brought to manageable level and that takes money which politicians are unwilling to spend, since that probably does not get them votes.  For me, the correct answer is that politicians need to work for the good of the country and not who pays them more and what gets them votes and come up with sensible and workable solutions.  That will never happen.

If a small fence like the Berlin Wall could not keep people looking for freedom in East Berlin, don't think a 1000+ mile fence is going to keep people who are hungry from coming in. 

No it is not right for people without legal right to come in to come in.  Yes, we do need border security to protect us from the criminal and the terrorist.  Do we become a walled-in country on both the north and south borders?  The successful attacks against us were carried out thru Canada.  I haven't heard of a movement or plan to close that border.

Another part is that we need to bolster our intelligence gathering capabilites that Carter and Slick Willy dismantled.  We need to know what is going on north and south of our borders inorder to respond.

I know a lot of illegals and they are hard working people.  They keep quiet, mind their business and work two to three jobs.  The jobs they do are the ones that we the citizens, do not want.  I don't know how many are receiving benefits without working.  I know they pax taxes, federal, state and local.  They overpay on income, they can't file for excess payments and cannot collect Social Security.  In the 1950's, the US had a worker program with Mexico where they could come work for two years and go home.  Part of the program was that the worker would pay Social Security and receive benefits when they became of age.  The people who participated have reached age requirements and the US reneged on the deal.  That is a sample of the attitude that the US has had towards Mexico and Central America.  That attitude has influenced our policies towards immigration.

[jerry]

This is a hard problem to deal with.  As DesertMarine stated, most of the jobs these people do, are ones that none of us want.  I think alot of the illegals work in agricultural.  As far as punishing the employer, if they knowingly employee illegals, yes.  More often than not, they are provided false papers.

If the government would streamline the H2-A program, I feel most companies would use it.  There has been a lot of discussion on this, but with the election coming up, no members of congress want to do or say anything that might cost them a vote.  It's this lack of backbone that has gotten us where we are today.  It's to bad that most of our elected officials only want to get re-elected.  I say most, because there are some who want to do what's right, that is, do what I think is right.

Just my two cen...er 1.5...er...better stop before it's all gone.

[DDMac]

Desert Marine, I agree with  your analysis of how we got to this point with immigration. However not all illegals are quiet, hard working people who do jobs nobody wants. Our jails are disproportionately packed with exceptions to your claim. It is not because they are Hispanic. It is because they are anonymous. Imagine how drivers would change their behavior if there was no longer a requirement to register and license plate your vehicle? Asphalt chaos.

Somebody legally here did those manual labor jobs before the cheap labor tide came in. Right? Wonder what those citizens are doing for a living now? Not working? On welfare? We need MORE government programs!!! We need more taxpayer funded initiatives!! It is all around us. We pay for this coming and going.

Government loves to grow. Current lax immigration policy allows government to gorge itself, while sincerely pretending to lament the loss of control over who comes in and who does not.

Here is the thing. It is not a matter of speeding up paperwork. The immigration system was established with a goal of permitting in the number of people, with selected talents and skills, to find a welcome greeting among citizens who would assimilate them into society. Calculations based on economic and social factors to set the admission standards worked well for most of the life span of this country. We are now having to deal with a Land Run environment where the niceties of civilized society are a routine casualty. There will be tragedies and Justice will suffer in our attempt to separate compassion from outright greed.

What I do not understand, and don't know where to learn, is why Mexico is the way it is? Simple question with a complex answer I'm sure, but I'd still like to know. Why are the hard working people poor? Why is there no work? The simple answer of "corruption" is all I have heard and does nothing to actually convey understanding. Perhaps the US citizen would be more inclined to get involved in a solution, both here and there, if we understood. The administration has done a crappy job educating the public on this issue in my opinion, which has resulted in lack of support for changes in the system.

Anyway, I'm for Romney for VP.
Mac.

[DesertMarine]

Good points DDMack.  I don't know about the disproportionately numbers of illegals in our jails.  Reports that I have heard about point to very low percentages of illegals in jail.  What I have seen is that illegals committing are getting a lot more reporting with emphasis on how bad illegals are.  I mainly watch Fox News and CNN and both are doing it.  They have both tapered off but last year and earlier this year that was their main topic.  I guess it is old news now so they have moved on to other topics. 

After the Guest Worker Program (Bracero Program) of the 1950s expired, people started coming over illegally to work.  The Mexican-American people were doing most of the agricultural work in the Southwest and West  I don't know about the South or Florida.  That was my parents generation.  My generation started to get educated and moving out of those jobs.  Now very few if any Mexican-Americans of the current generation do that type of work unless they own the farms or ranches.  Big void in work force.  Mexico had a stable and growing economy in the 1940's and 1950's.  For some reason, they went down, probably a lot of factors with corruption being a big factor along with others.  People got hungry and started looking and moving to where jobs were available.

Illegal immigaration is a problem that took 50 to 60 years to get us to where we are.  It is only after 9/11 that illegal immigration started getting attention.  What is the best answer?  To me that would be for Mexico's economy to start growing and taking care of their own citizens but highly unlikely.  With the crime situation over there, don't see much possibility of anything good happening.  Again, I'll point to us being part of the problem.  If the US did not have the drug problem that we have people around the world would not be fighting to provide us with the drugs that we want.  No market, no problem.  Seems like the new Mexican President is trying to do something about it. 

Illegal immigration and drugs are huge problems and maybe the best solutions might come up with the US, Mexico and other suppling countries getting together and attempt to solve them. 

Well, Romney might not be a bad choice.   I really haven't thought much of who for VP.  My main fear is that Obama will win and we'll have to oil up our toys for when we start getting hit again. 

Like good discussions.  Lots to learn.

[DDMac]

Thanks for the insight. I wish we could resolve all these issues for the rest of Humanity, but, one day at a time. I visited Carlbad one time with my first wife...saw lots of bats!! Wish she had flown off with the rest of them. Anyway, keep shootin'
Mac.

[Sponsor]

[DesertMarine]

I understand the flying thought.  Wish mine would have done the same thing.  I finally flew away.  Went shooting today, I put a new upper with 16" barrel on my Olympic AR.  Put together break-in ammo with 50 & 52 grain bullets and different powders.  No attempt at accurate load.  Got a 9 round 2" group & 100 meters with six of them just over 1".  Anxious to see what it will do when I find the load it likes.

Thanks.

[DDMac]

I would be REAL happy with that group.
Mac.

[DesertMarine]

I am hoping for 1" consistent groups and would love 3/4" groups.  I love small groups with a good balance between power and accuracy.   With the 24" barrel, could hit 1 1/2" gong at 200 meters consistently.  Using 6/5 X 20 Leupold scope.  But rifle too heavy and could only shoot from bench.  This will be a fun gun.  I can always switch uppers.               

[tombogan03884]

AR's, 1911's and 10/22's are like "Leggo's" 

[DesertMarine]

AR's, 1911's and 10/22's are like "Leggo's" 

And a lot more fun.