Afgan 747 Crash

[billt]

It looks to be caused by a cargo shift at takeoff. The 747 was carrying 6 Maxpro vehicles and was full of fuel heading for Dubai. At rotation they broke loose and rolled to the rear of the plane, shifting the CG so far to the rear the pilot could not overcome it with elevator input.

[oldkat69]

  God bless those who go where angels fear to tread.

[Solus]

That is very likely what happened...

Watching it, it seemed they were in a stall attitude but it didn't look like they were in any kind of landing pattern...so cargo shift on take off would be a likely explaination.

[billt]

That is very likely what happened...

Watching it, it seemed they were in a stall attitude but it didn't look like they were in any kind of landing pattern...so cargo shift on take off would be a likely explaination.

When the aircraft first came into view in the video, it looked to be in almost an 80+ degree climb. When it stalled and fell off the right wing it looked like it was going into a classic spin. It's a miracle they managed to get the wings level under that condition before they ran out of air.

[mooner]

God bless indeed.  I went to high school with Jeremy Lipka who has been cited as either the pilot or co-pilot depending on the report.  Very good guy and will be missed.

[Sponsor]

[jnevis]

Training kicked in immediately.
Aviate, Navigate, Communicate  Unfortunately, as mentioned, they ran out of air.

Also notice the MP immediately posted a perimeter to keep people clear.

[Solus]

When the aircraft first came into view in the video, it looked to be in almost an 80+ degree climb. When it stalled and fell off the right wing it looked like it was going into a classic spin. It's a miracle they managed to get the wings level under that condition before they ran out of air.

Yes.....it was an impossible situation.  Then needed to get the nose down to gain air speed...and with a plane that size in that attitude, a few hundred feet just won't cut it.


And yeah,   Flat Spin, (made famous in the movie Top Gun) was what came to mind.

[tombogan03884]

Sh!t happens .
Depending on your job, some of it can kill you.
Still a lot safer than driving.

[Tyler Durden]

Wikipedia says an MRAP weighs 14 tons.  That's 28,000 pounds.  I have to wonder if a tie down strap let go, if the hardware that attaches to the cargo deck was strong enough, some sort of human error in tieing them down.

Granted all of the piloting I have done has just been in little Cessnas and gliders, but from what I recall it was common to get a little bit of rotation or spin during a stall.  My guess is that one wing stops producing lift before the other wing.  It is an eerie feeling.  It's the realization that for a few moments you are no longer in control, that you're just along for the ride.

I am curious if that was the first time MRAPs were loaded on a 747 like that.

[tombogan03884]

Wikipedia says an MRAP weighs 14 tons.  That's 28,000 pounds.  I have to wonder if a tie down strap let go, if the hardware that attaches to the cargo deck was strong enough, some sort of human error in tieing them down.

Granted all of the piloting I have done has just been in little Cessnas and gliders, but from what I recall it was common to get a little bit of rotation or spin during a stall.  My guess is that one wing stops producing lift before the other wing.  It is an eerie feeling.  It's the realization that for a few moments you are no longer in control, that you're just along for the ride.

I am curious if that was the first time MRAPs were loaded on a 747 like that.

You're right about one wing losing more lift faster, causing the plane to drop to that side.
That is how you put a stunt capable plane into a spin .

I also think you are right about the tie downs breaking free .
The C 17 (used to be C 5    ) is built to carry M 1 Tanks, Not only are their tie down points over built, the floor they are attached to is reinforced as well as the Air craft frame.
A 747 is built to CIVILIAN specs, for carrying civilian type freight .
On top of that some of the air freight contracts went to some ridiculously shady carriers, such as Victor Bout, who made billions using a fleet of aging Soviet transports to ship guns all over Africa .
And US cargoes into Iraq and Afghanistan.
Since he had been running guns to both the Northern Alliance and the Taliban his crews already knew the routes so it made sense to give him the contracts.
He's in prison in the US but his operation is characteristic of the FBO' getting the contracts.
Just because it's a 747 does not mean it's new.
Or anywhere remotely close to new .    
On top of that,maintenance is going to be very iffy just due to parts, on top of that, ground crew aren't always up to our standards .
So it is easy to visualize a poorly tended, overstressed old tie down failing and causing a chain reaction .
More likely than crew error, since even if the ground crew were sloppy the Load Master would have been on it since he's riding with it.