Students face being expelled for defending their own lives

[kmitch200]

how do you control a campus that is huge, has 10s of thosuands of students, has access to several froms of transpertation?   its really not easy, or even practical

You don't need a gun to defend yourself.  A gun is just a tool.  Its software, not hardware. I can think of several reasons not to allow guns in dorms.  1 liabilty 2 felons/ porbies can't share the room with one, so now you have to ask 2 people about thier personal lives.  3public affairs night mare. its really easy to cite liabilty and other intrustions in privacy for having a no gun policy.  Its not so easy to explain why they can have guns.   all it takes is one person to make it thier mission and you will be screwed.

You cite reasons a large campus can't be controlled (they can't) and in the next breath, say it's perfectly OK to keep the most effective tool for self defense out of the hands of those that don't suffer from your Kalifornia induced Pant Shitting Hysteria and just want to protect themselves.
WTF? Do you have guns to protect your family? Does not that make you a hypocritical ass?
Tab, you talk out of both sides of your mouth and your ass, and none of them makes a lick of sense.

[TAB]

So tell me this, how do address the issues i pointed out?  Pointing to the 2nd amendment is not going to work.  I see this the same way i see the employer/ employee realtionship.   fallow the rules or get the boot. ( all of this presums state law says its ok to ban guns,)

[Ranger Dave]

Ok what other defensive tools do you recomend when a felon busts in your door, carrying a gun intending to do you harm when you cannot be armed?

[PegLeg45]

So tell me this, how do address the issues i pointed out?  Pointing to the 2nd amendment is not going to work.  I see this the same way i see the employer/ employee realtionship.   fallow the rules or get the boot. ( all of this presums state law says its ok to ban guns,)

I address your points by saying "allow honest legal citizens to CCW everywhere".....

Brilliant, TAB..... you just made the point for everyone else........ Follow the rules, as in the 2nd Amendment, or get the boot. THAT is what we need to be saying to the government....who, by the way, are the ones not following the rules.

You cite reasons a large campus can't be controlled (they can't) and in the next breath, say it's perfectly OK to keep the most effective tool for self defense out of the hands of those that don't suffer from your Kalifornia induced Pant Shitting Hysteria and just want to protect themselves.
WTF? Do you have guns to protect your family? Does not that make you a hypocritical ass?
Tab, you talk out of both sides of your mouth and your ass, and none of them makes a lick of sense.

I see you have met TAB and his thought process....   

[MikeBjerum]

You don't need a gun to defend yourself.  A gun is just a tool.  Its software, not hardware.      I can think of several reasons not to allow guns in dorms.  1 liabilty 2 felons/ porbies can't share the room with one, so now you have to ask 2 people about thier personal lives.  3  public affairs night mare.    its really easy to cite liabilty and other intrustions in privacy for having a no gun policy.  Its not so easy to explain why they can have guns.   all it takes is one person to make it thier mission and you will be screwed.

Let me introduce you to TAB.  TAB is the oozing slime you get when Sara Brady and Michael Bloomberg mate 

[Sponsor]

[Solus]

I often disagree with TAB, mostly on his acceptance of the legal situation he is operating under.

From the businesses he has run to firearms.  

For business, you need to get the job done in the environment you are working in...no time to fight city hall in a major campaign if you want to "Ger 'er Done".

I have no doubt that TAB supports 2A far more strongly than it appears....he has a deep believe in personal freedom which includes property rights to the exclusion of other concerns to some degree.

But, were the chips down, I'd have TAB at my back any time.  I'd just bring some extra ammo in his caliber.  

[PegLeg45]

I often disagree with TAB, mostly on his acceptance of the legal situation he is operating under.

From the businesses he has run to firearms.  

For business, you need to get the job done in the environment you are working in...no time to fight city hall in a major campaign if you want to "Ger 'er Done".

I have no doubt that TAB supports 2A far more strongly than it appears....he has a deep believe in personal freedom which includes property rights to the exclusion of other concerns to some degree.

But, were the chips down, I'd have TAB at my back any time.  I'd just bring some extra ammo in his caliber.  

I agree....
I do not doubt TAB's beliefs in personal freedoms, including the basis of the 2nd Amendment either.

Where TAB and I (and others) tend to engage in disagreement (more often than not) is over legal issues involving public domain and CCW. While I agree that when it comes to personal private property, the owner should have exclusive rights, TAB tends to overlap that into public access zones and uses liability issues for his defense.


I will also allow that even though I do not see eye-to-eye on every little detail with TAB, we have far more in common where interests are concerned, and I consider him an intelligent and likable fellow, whom I would probably enjoy engaging in discussion with were we to meet in person, and a valuable part of this forum.
More than once he has made me rethink my position on things, and even when I usually conclude that I still feel right in my opinion, at least it made me think in order to reinforce my stance on whatever the subject..... and we can always use that.


I would sincerely hope that no one (like new members or guests that are unfamiliar with the norm of this forum, or anyone familiar but not paying attention) would ever get the notion that my bandying words with TAB is in any way a personal attack on him. 

[fatbaldguy]

Let me introduce you to TAB.  TAB is the oozing slime you get when Sara Brady and Michael Bloomberg mate 

Some things you just cannot un-hear!

[TAB]

like it or not liabilty is a big deal in this world.   the bigger the pockets the bigger the risk.  A flesh wound can cost 10s of thousands  how many of you can pay that?  Not many,

[Solus]

like it or not liabilty is a big deal in this world.   the bigger the pockets the bigger the risk.  A flesh wound can cost 10s of thousands  how many of you can pay that?  Not many,

The answer to that is to level the Liability Playing Field.

If you remove a person's ability to fully and effectively protect themselves, you are responsible for providing protection and paying should what you provide not be effective. 

It might be more likely there will be an accidental injury than an assault casualty, but that is the decision that will need to be made...and the one making the decision to leave folks helpless and defenseless is on the hook for the damages and consequences.

I know you will say that there is no guarantee that a person will be able to protect themselves if they are armed so they can't prove you are liable

I know because you have said it before, and the answer is that you may be right, but if they are left defenseless it is guaranteed they will not be able to defend themselves as effectively. 

 If, however,  they are left with the means to defend themselves and fail, there is no question that the responsibility is theirs.