Fight or Die

[gunman1911]

My Dad and Uncles all fought in WWII, My Dad and Uncle Floyd went in through Normandy with my Uncle Floyd winding up in the Battle of the Bulge. My other two Uncles ,Virgil and Darle were in the Marines that went through the South Pacific. The only time I heard of what had happened was from my Dad and Uncle Floyd, my Dad related about the concentration camps and my Uncle when he showed me the Luger that he took off a German officer. I do know that My Uncle Darel was wounded in Sipan. My Uncle Virgil never, NEVER said anything about the experience of war , he just came home laid on the couch for about 3 week moved to California and went to work as a animation.

[Frosty]

I wish I could record it, being on Mtn. time it doesn't come on till 2400 hrs and I gotta get up at 0430  .  My Dad served with the 101st Airborne (Screaming Eagles) went up thru Holland and ?? during WW II, he wouldn't go see Saving Private Ryan, never has said boo about any of it even to my mom. His brother (USMC) got killed in Saipan, got two nephews that were Combat Marines with the 2/5 that made the initial push into Baghdad in "03". In my career I have seen numerous bodies in various stages of dead but war is a different animal and I have all the respect in the world for our Military men and women. Went to lunch yesterday with 6 CST members some from Guam, Montana and various other places, some had deployed to the sand box and came back in one piece physically, just by listening to a couple of guys I could tell it played with their heads.. I bought them all lunch just as a way to say thanks in my own little way. Walked out of there a buck and a half lighter and was happy to do it and would do it again

[tombogan03884]

I wish that they would really STOP showing these types of moves . It's not that I don't like them it's just that I being a marine vet live with it every day knowing that my brothers & sisters are dieing every day for us.... I will never forget them!!!!!!!!!!! nor will I ever let my guard down.. I don't think watching them die makes for a good movie!!!!

You may never forget, but we also have to make sure the civilians NEVER forget what our Brothers and (now) Sisters in uniform have and continue to sacrifice so that they can sit home and watch American Idol.
We need to continuously rub the noses of these self righteous "Peace activists" in the truth of what it REALLY means to work for peace, they should never be allowed to forget the sacrifices made so they have the freedom to hold up their signs and make asses of themselves. I know about the yellow footprints and snapping to attention for colors. and I almost did what Gunny Ermey said during the first half of Full Metal Jacket, that could have been MY squad bay. I even talked with guy's who landed at Normandy, but during that first few minutes of Saving Private Ryan I to was stunned, That was THE WAR. Since then I have learned that during the time period of those opening scenes, Normandy's first wave, there were more Americans killed than on 9-11, operations in Afghanistan and the Iraq war, COMBINED. Lexington, Chepulchtepec Castle, Antietam, Gettysburg, the Peking Legation, Balleou Wood, Haiti, Nicaragua, Wake Island, Iwo Jima, Chosin Reservoir, Lebanon, Hue, Khe San, USS Mayaguez, Beirut, Somalia Iraq, Afghanistan, The selfless courage honor, and commitment to an Ideal even in the face of death MUST NEVER BE FORGOTTEN !                                                 Semper Fi.

[Pathfinder]

I wish I could record it, being on Mtn. time it doesn't come on till 2400 hrs and I gotta get up at 0430  .  My Dad served with the 101st Airborne (Screaming Eagles) went up thru Holland and ?? during WW II, he wouldn't go see Saving Private Ryan, never has said boo about any of it even to my mom. His brother (USMC) got killed in Saipan, got two nephews that were Combat Marines with the 2/5 that made the initial push into Baghdad in "03". In my career I have seen numerous bodies in various stages of dead but war is a different animal and I have all the respect in the world for our Military men and women. Went to lunch yesterday with 6 CST members some from Guam, Montana and various other places, some had deployed to the sand box and came back in one piece physically, just by listening to a couple of guys I could tell it played with their heads.. I bought them all lunch just as a way to say thanks in my own little way. Walked out of there a buck and a half lighter and was happy to do it and would do it again

Common to those folks, I think. My dad flew B-17s over Germany, 8th AF, 398th BG, 600 Sqdn. He too never said much about his experiences, some funny stuff like having to use the bomb bay as the bathroom on the 10-12 hour flights. But none of the serious stuff. But once a year he got together with his crew and others in the 398th at their reunion, never talked about those trips either.

I've found this reticence to talk to be prevalent among our WWII vets - it was a nasty job they had to do, they did it, were successful (thank God), and returned to rebuild their lives. Our greatest generation indeed.

[cookie62]

I know several vets, most don't talk about there experience. The ones that do are usually the braggers, and the others just roll there eyes when they do. I have never been in war but I do work in rescue and body recovery. I have seen some pretty bad stuff that I don't like to talk or think about either. It's just one of those things you don't sit around the kitchen table and talk about. If you are with somebody that has been through it you can share your experiences more openly. I am sure most vets do talk, but just within there circle.

[Sponsor]

[Ron J]

You may never forget, but we also have to make sure the civilians NEVER forget what our Brothers and (now) Sisters in uniform have and continue to sacrifice so that they can sit home and watch American Idol.
We need to continuously rub the noses of these self righteous "Peace activists" in the truth of what it REALLY means to work for peace, they should never be allowed to forget the sacrifices made so they have the freedom to hold up their signs and make asses of themselves. I know about the yellow footprints and snapping to attention for colors. and I almost did what Gunny Ermey said during the first half of Full Metal Jacket, that could have been MY squad bay. I even talked with guy's who landed at Normandy, but during that first few minutes of Saving Private Ryan I to was stunned, That was THE WAR. Since then I have learned that during the time period of those opening scenes, Normandy's first wave, there were more Americans killed than on 9-11, operations in Afghanistan and the Iraq war, COMBINED. Lexington, Chepulchtepec Castle, Antietam, Gettysburg, the Peking Legation, Balleou Wood, Haiti, Nicaragua, Wake Island, Iwo Jima, Chosin Reservoir, Lebanon, Hue, Khe San, USS Mayaguez, Beirut, Somalia Iraq, Afghanistan, The selfless courage honor, and commitment to an Ideal even in the face of death MUST NEVER BE FORGOTTEN !                                                 Semper Fi.

AMEN!  Very well said Tom!!

We must be forever grateful to those who are "Always Faithful" serving our country. 

[tombogan03884]

Common to those folks, I think. My dad flew B-17s over Germany, 8th AF, 398th BG, 600 Sqdn. He too never said much about his experiences, some funny stuff like having to use the bomb bay as the bathroom on the 10-12 hour flights. But none of the serious stuff. But once a year he got together with his crew and others in the 398th at their reunion, never talked about those trips either.

I've found this reticence to talk to be prevalent among our WWII vets - it was a nasty job they had to do, they did it, were successful (thank God), and returned to rebuild their lives. Our greatest generation indeed.

I know several vets, most don't talk about there experience. The ones that do are usually the braggers, and the others just roll there eyes when they do. I have never been in war but I do work in rescue and body recovery. I have seen some pretty bad stuff that I don't like to talk or think about either. It's just one of those things you don't sit around the kitchen table and talk about. If you are with somebody that has been through it you can share your experiences more openly. I am sure most vets do talk, but just within there circle.

My Dad was a Marine machine gun section leader in Korea, He earned a Silver Star during the out post fighting. He joined the 1st Mar Div in Korea 4 months after the Retreat from Chosin Resivior and served (way) under Chesty Puller.
As a kid growing up he showed me his photo album, and told me a couple of stories, mostly I heard him talking to other Veterans. Since I came home from the Marines myself we have had many many long talks about aspects of our respective service that would not have been possible before my enlistment as I would have had no frame of reference. If your scariest experience is being caught drinking under age or an incedent on a sports field, you don't have the ability to understand the mentality of some who just saw his best freind turn into a reddish mist in a mortar explosion. One thing he told me was he thought he had it easy, as a Squad Leader he was to busy worrying about a dozen other guys to worry about himself, He felt sorry for the "poor rifleman " in his hole with nothing to worry about but himself.
My point is that those Veterans , of all wars, see themselves as just doing their job, Every Hero when pressed will say basicly the same thing, Hell, I don't deserve that medal half as much as so and so. They talk about their experience alright, but it's among themselves, Veterans of past wars will compare notes with Veterans of current wars etc.
As a machinist I don't go on and on about difficult parts I've made to some one who works in an office, and Veterans don't tell many stories to nonveterans unless to illustrate a point for the same reason, instead we find a subject that we share. Often times I listen to the ones who are bragging away to the good looking girl, "Oh yeah, I was in Recon, or the always popular, "Well, I'm not REALLY supposed to talk about it" after listening for a while you KNOW the truth, the first is seldom true, the second, never.  Sometimes for fun, (TAB NOT POSTING ) I'll but in with something like "Oh really, What outfit ? or since Marines are a popular subject for these type of wanna be's I'll ask a few specific questions like where did they go to Boot camp, but I will use slang terms that you would not be familiar with if you weren't actualy there,. Among a group of veterans the answers are often correct, if it's only pretty girls and civilians around our talkative hero the answers are almost always wrong.
I'm pretty sure every other Veteran on this forum can supply similar stories, ESPECIALY the ones who REALLY were in recon or Special Forces.

[Ruger-55]

I agree with all, but like they said in the program they fight to keep there own buts alive % there buddy's . There is only one  blame , and I belive it to put on our goverment , If they were to keep our own country safe & keep our troops home to do this , plus keep our nose out of other people's busness I really think that we would not be in the situation we are in .... Yes we must protect our intrests, but it does not mean we have to go to war with some one. by doing so we are fighting there battles they should fight there own !!! Then we can take care of our own country... talk is talk and alot of people belive the lie's because they do not know the truth, why you may ask is because our goverment will continue to lie to the people and they will continue to belive them. There is a old saying :  Belive nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see  because nothing of what you hear is true & only half of what you see is true. I will never belive our goverment , why? because they are the ones in control. they say we must do this ,but don't give us the real reason. Please don't get me wrong I'd fight to the death . But only if we were invated in this country. Oh yes better there then here, I dont belive that & never will .. If you want people to see what war is really all about ,and to fight for freedom , let the war come here 90% will fight & the 10% that don't will run & hide like scared little animals. I know most will not agree but these are MY thoughts, that was one war we should have never have gotten in to..  Question? Is any war worth getting in to?

[tombogan03884]

I agree with all, but like they said in the program they fight to keep there own buts alive % there buddy's . There is only one  blame , and I belive it to put on our goverment , If they were to keep our own country safe & keep our troops home to do this , plus keep our nose out of other people's busness I really think that we would not be in the situation we are in .... Yes we must protect our intrests, but it does not mean we have to go to war with some one. by doing so we are fighting there battles they should fight there own !!! Then we can take care of our own country... talk is talk and alot of people belive the lie's because they do not know the truth, why you may ask is because our goverment will continue to lie to the people and they will continue to belive them. There is a old saying :  Belive nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see  because nothing of what you hear is true & only half of what you see is true. I will never belive our goverment , why? because they are the ones in control. they say we must do this ,but don't give us the real reason. Please don't get me wrong I'd fight to the death . But only if we were invated in this country. Oh yes better there then here, I dont belive that & never will .. If you want people to see what war is really all about ,and to fight for freedom , let the war come here 90% will fight & the 10% that don't will run & hide like scared little animals. I know most will not agree but these are MY thoughts, that was one war we should have never have gotten in to..  Question? Is any war worth getting in to?

You are entitled to your opinion, however I disagree with it and these are my reasons. ( I don't expect to change your mind I am just presenting a different view. also, I still haven't got to bed yet so if my dates are off please excuse me  )

You can negotiate with any one, but sometimes you have to kick them in the nuts to get their attention. Ask Qaddafi.
If ignoring other countries arrogance, and talking worked we would never have had a Navy. in the early 1800's The Barbary pirates, muslims from north Africa, were seizing merchant ships of the newly independent US,and enslaving the crews. We asked them to stop but they ignored us. So we tried what the British and French were doing, Bribery, that only led to more ships being seized, and demands for ever increasing amounts of tribute. We were not a wealthy nation at that time, most of our revenue was derived from taxes on imported goods,  between the loss of cargoes, double and even triple rates of insurance, and danger pay to crews and declining respect for our flag on the high seas, these fore runners of the islamo fascists of today were wrecking our economy. Farmers were going bankrupt because, as a direct result of this situation there was no capital available to invest in their farms, the same lack of investment capital stalled the fledgling Industrial revolution in America. With no other options Thomas Jefferson, who thought much as you do, did the only thing left. He built and outfitted 6 Frigates, with their complements of Marines they proceeded to the Med where after much trial and error, and incidents of both great courage and great stupidity our infant Navy found it's stride. We kicked the crap out of 2 of the Barbary states, instituting our first "regime change"Seeing this the third state became most co operative, settling for a face saving token payment and peace that lasted for about 150 years. There are other examples in between like Japan but I'll stick with the muslims for continuity. The 1960's saw the rise of the muslim/communist PLO terrorists, the 70's saw oil rich Libya supporting them and enabling them to kill innocents in Europe. Again we tried Talking, and bribery and sanctions (because politicians never study history or take the WRONG lessons from it)So after a particularly bloody bombing in a W. Berlin nightclub, where most of the victims were young German women looking to pick up US GI's, we tried the only remaining option. We took military action, We sank their ships, shot down their planes bombed terror training camps  and blew up Qaddafi's house, killing at least one of his family members. We had no more problems with Libya, in fact they are quietly assisting us in the current war on terror.
On 9-11 muslims again attacked and killed Americans in an unprovoked attack on a world renowned landmark, killing thousands of innocent Mothers and Fathers, many of whom held the same views you do, IE. live and let live. I myself subscribe to that philosophy, but the muslim extremists do not. there fore the chore currently before our country is to kill so many of those mot7#r fu&#rs that they will not bother us for another 50 or 100 years.
To answer your question based on JUST America's experience with muslim extremists, yes some wars ARE well worth getting into,if I had not had a heart attack and a couple other disqualifying medical conditions, I would be putting my butt behind my beliefs.
Stephen Decatur proposed a toast," My country, may She always be right, But my country right or wrong."

[tumblebug]

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