When do we start shooting ?

[twyacht]

JoeG you seem like a very savvy bloke, with a cogniscent awareness. The wheat amongst the chaffe,... I would urge and encourage you to read Col. Jeff Cooper.

A wise and sage Marine, that left action and deeds that was intentional for us to consider.

"One cannot legislate the maniacs off the street ... these maniacs can only be shut down by an armed citizenry. Indeed bad things can happen in nations where the citizenry is armed, but not as bad as those which seem to be threatening our disarmed citizenry in this country at this time."

"All the people constitute the militia - according to the Founding Fathers. Therefore every able-bodied man has a duty under the Constitution to become part of the 'well-regulated' militia, specifically to understand and perform well with the individual weapon currently issued to the regular establishment .... Thus one who has not qualified himself with the M-16 may not be considered to be a responsible citizen."

"The conclusions seem inescapable that in certain circles a tendency has arisen to fear people who fear government. Government, as the Father of Our Country put it so well, is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. People who understand history, especially the history of government, do well to fear it. For a people to express openly their fear of those of us who are afraid of tyranny is alarming. Fear of the state is in no sense subversive. It is, to the contrary, the healthiest political philosophy for a free people."



It is interesting to hear certain kinds of people insist that the citizen cannot fight the government. This would have been news to the men of Lexington and Concord, as well as the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan. The citizen most certainly can fight the government, and usually wins when he tries. Organized national armies are useful primarily for fighting against other organized national armies. When they try to fight against the people, they find themselves at a very serious disadvantage. If you will just look around at the state of the world today, you will see that the guerillero has the upper hand. Irregulars usually defeat regulars, providing they have the will. Such fighting is horrible to contemplate, but will continue to dominate brute strength.

[Ulmus]

 The citizen most certainly can fight the government, and usually wins when he tries. Organized national armies are useful primarily for fighting against other organized national armies. When they try to fight against the people, they find themselves at a very serious disadvantage. If you will just look around at the state of the world today, you will see that the guerillero has the upper hand. Irregulars usually defeat regulars, providing they have the will. Such fighting is horrible to contemplate, but will continue to dominate brute strength.

That's the key.  It has to be a large group of people standing together.  Not a lone person.   If someone went out tonight and started shooting, they would be lumped right in with all the wack-jobs like the L.A. cop killer, that orange haired Colorado punk, and the cowardly child killer in Newtown. 

All that person would do is give more political ammo to the entrenched who want all guns taken away.

Small groups aren't big enough either.  They'd be called "homegrown" terrorists.

The only time something so drastic should be considered is when entire counties stand united against threats and tyranny against the citizens of the United States.

Show me one county commission that presented, voted on, and approved the use of violence against any act of firearm regulation and/or confiscation and I'll freely state the time is close.

Until then, it's just wind.

As of now, I choose to fight with words, letters, and conviction; not bullets.

[tombogan03884]

That's the key.  It has to be a large group of people standing together.  Not a lone person.   If someone went out tonight and started shooting, they would be lumped right in with all the wack-jobs like the L.A. cop killer, that orange haired Colorado punk, and the cowardly child killer in Newtown. 

All that person would do is give more political ammo to the entrenched who want all guns taken away.

Small groups aren't big enough either.  They'd be called "homegrown" terrorists.

The only time something so drastic should be considered is when entire counties stand united against threats and tyranny against the citizens of the United States.

Show me one county commission that presented, voted on, and approved the use of violence against any act of firearm regulation and/or confiscation and I'll freely state the time is close.

Until then, it's just wind.

As of now, I choose to fight with words, letters, and conviction; not bullets.

Oh horse crap.
American Revolution, 3% fought for freedom
The American Indians spent more time fighting each other than the Whites and it still took over 200 years to defeat them.
Then of course there are the Viet Cong who operated mostly with out NVA troops until 1968.
Then the Afghans against the Soviets. That's just 4 examples history shows that a "majority" is never needed in a rebellion, just guts which seems to be the one thing lacking in America today.

[Ulmus]

Then I humbly stand corrected.

[twyacht]

One other would be the Warsaw Ghetto.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising

A handful of "rebels" made a laughing stock of Europes strongest forces for months with a handful of rag tag arms and guerilla tactics.

Those that do not remember history are doomed to repeat it.

I pray it is not repeated......

But I will damn sure remind them of it.

[Sponsor]

[jaybet]

You may get a test case for your theories here in NJ if things keep going the way they've been. The arrogance in our state government is staggering and completely out of touch with the voters, with reality, and with their duties as public officials.

[tombogan03884]

One other would be the Warsaw Ghetto.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising

A handful of "rebels" made a laughing stock of Europes strongest forces for months with a handful of rag tag arms and guerilla tactics.

Those that do not remember history are doomed to repeat it.

I pray it is not repeated......

But I will damn sure remind them of it.

Something to remember is that the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto held out longer than either Poland or France .

Man or mouse time for M58.

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=22000.0;topicseen

Minnesota Democrats are pushing similar legislation using nearly identical language as the Missouri bill.

MN H.F. No. 241, as introduced – 88th Legislative Session (2013-2014) Posted on Jan 31, 2013

    10.20 Sec. 7. PERSONS POSSESSING ASSAULT WEAPONS ON EFFECTIVE DATE
    ACT; REQUIRED ACTIONS.
    Any person who, on February 1, 2013, legally owns or is in possession of an assault weapon has until September 1, 2013, to do any of the following without being subject to
    prosecution under Minnesota Statutes, section 624.7133:

    (1) remove the weapon from the state;

    (2) surrender the weapon to a law enforcement agency for destruction;

    (3) render the weapon permanently inoperable; or

    (4) if eligible, register the weapon as provided in Minnesota Statutes, section 624.7133, subdivision 5.

    EFFECTIVE DATE.This section is effective the day following final enactment.

[JoeG]

My answer to when? is;
 
Not Now and not Never. I have not been able to narrow it down much more than that yet!

Just make sure the abuse is warranted, Did you understand that I meant that I am not there yet but that it it does seem likely that we will end up moving from  political protest to a "more aggressive posture" at some point. I am watching but unwilling to provide the asshole opposition with specific details.

I believe that the lesson of the Warsaw ghetto is that you cannot let them take your firearms away or you are lost. The recognition that threat levels had reached a new high after 9/11 was one a big reason for me to return to shooting after 30 years away and teach my son. (Beside that it has been fun.)

One of the lessons that I had to learn when I took on my corporate security role 15 years ago was to be clear about my scope of responsibility. I am charged with keeping our employees safe not with "putting criminals away". If I can get the threat out of my workplace with a minimum of impact and minimal emotional attachment to my company then I have succeeded. If that includes putting a scary bastard away by assisting the police that is gravy, Not My Job.

My kids safety is my job, then mine, then friends and family within reason. I am prepared to do what it takes for that mission. While I am prepared to give my life for the ideals of the constitution which I consider the single greatest human achievement outside of science, that does not mean I will throw it away for the sheeple.

I do not believe there are enough folks left in the country who even understand the constitution to save the whole nation at this point. that is why I suspect that those of us with a clue will eventually congregate in regions that we can defend politically as well as physically. NY and CA are in my opinion lost causes without some dramatic significant emotional event that changes the sheeple's behavior.

At this point in time, I decline to expend my life attempting to be the catalyst for that event. They will just change the channel.

Highest regards for the grit to grapple with reality.

[tombogan03884]

Just make sure the abuse is warranted, Did you understand that I meant that I am not there yet but that it it does seem likely that we will end up moving from  political protest to a "more aggressive posture" at some point. I am watching but unwilling to provide the asshole opposition with specific details.

I believe that the lesson of the Warsaw ghetto is that you cannot let them take your firearms away or you are lost. The recognition that threat levels had reached a new high after 9/11 was one a big reason for me to return to shooting after 30 years away and teach my son. (Beside that it has been fun.)

One of the lessons that I had to learn when I took on my corporate security role 15 years ago was to be clear about my scope of responsibility. I am charged with keeping our employees safe not with "putting criminals away". If I can get the threat out of my workplace with a minimum of impact and minimal emotional attachment to my company then I have succeeded. If that includes putting a scary bastard away by assisting the police that is gravy, Not My Job.

My kids safety is my job, then mine, then friends and family within reason. I am prepared to do what it takes for that mission. While I am prepared to give my life for the ideals of the constitution which I consider the single greatest human achievement outside of science, that does not mean I will throw it away for the sheeple.

I do not believe there are enough folks left in the country who even understand the constitution to save the whole nation at this point. that is why I suspect that those of us with a clue will eventually congregate in regions that we can defend politically as well as physically. NY and CA are in my opinion lost causes without some dramatic significant emotional event that changes the sheeple's behavior.

At this point in time, I decline to expend my life attempting to be the catalyst for that event. They will just change the channel.

Highest regards for the grit to grapple with reality.

That post absolutely deserves favorable comment , especially the highlighted part .
Unfortunately I haven't completely formulated one yet beyond 2 items.
1 individual action beyond self defense is useless since it would be unlikely to be large enough to be effective and any individual action would be portrayed as a "lunatic"  as were Randy Weaver and the Branch Davidians.
2 Choice of stronghold regions would need to take into account strategic considerations besides merely the political climate, access to resources is an absolute need, as well as access, preferably to both ocean traffic and an international border for purposes of supply.

[fatbaldguy]

Choice of stronghold regions would need to take into account strategic considerations besides merely the political climate, access to resources is an absolute need, as well as access, preferably to both ocean traffic and an international border for purposes of supply.

Texas.  I'm trying to convince Mrs. FBG we need to go.  She ain't wearing a tinfoil hat, yet, but I'm trying.