When do we start shooting ?

[tombogan03884]

The whole purpose of this post is to spark debate 
At what point do patriotic, LAW ABIDING citizens say enough is enough and veto govt, action at gunpoint ? To be blunt, when do we start killing socialists?
Do we start when they infiltrate our institutions like Congress, or Schools ?  How about when they desecrate national symbols, Such as burning the flag ? Undermine our Armed Forces ? Promote the views of America's enemies?
Prevent Americans from exercising their rights? Or do we start killing them when they disregard the law of the land?Do you think these things set the bar to low, should we wait until the socialists actively give our country away to invaders from another nation ? Perhaps you think we should wait until the ballot box is no longer effective ?

        All of these things have been true for decades, will we start killing them in time or will it simply be the last bloody gasp of a dieing society ?

 

[PegLeg45]

This may already be posted elsewhere, but it may be apt here.
If not disregard.
I did not write it, don't know who did, but it is a good read........ In my opinion.

Food for thought…

CATCHING WILD PIGS

One day a professor leading a chemistry lab class noticed a young exchange student who kept rubbing his back, and stretching as if injured.  
He asked the young man what was the matter and the student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back.  
He had been shot during fighting in his native country by those wanting to install a communist government.
In the midst of his story he looked at the professor and asked a strange question.
He asked, 'Do you know how to catch wild pigs?'
The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line.  
The young man said this was no joke. He said, "You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come everyday to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming. When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side. The pigs, which are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat, hardly noticing the opening getting smaller as the gate quietly creaks closed. Almost suddenly the whole herd realizes it is caught. But not so suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. Some run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they all go back to eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.

The young man then told the professor that is exactly what he sees happening to America.  

The government keeps pushing us toward socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as tax credit for unearned income, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc, etc, etc. while we continue to lose our freedoms - just a little at a time.

Generally government will never provide a service more efficiently for you than you can do it yourself.  

So, if you see that all of this wonderful government 'help' is a problem confronting the future of democracy in America, you might want to send this on to your friends.  

If you rationalize these programs in the interest of “fairness or kindness” or think the free ride is essential to your way of life then you will probably disagree with this, but God help us all when the gate is closed!

[twyacht]

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
George Washington

Can't get much more "Founding" than that. He might have been in NH when he wrote that.

"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American."
Tench Coxe 2/20/1788 "John Adams described Coxe as a "wiley, winding, subtle, and insidious character."

"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."
Ayn Rand, The Nature of Government

Every time I read this I get really mad.

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people�s liberty teeth and keystone under independence. From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to ensure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference�they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington, Jan. 7, 1790, speech to Congress

I'll finish with that, and A Revolution/Civil War,  version 2.0 would be terrible. However to answer the question on your post,..

"should we wait until the socialists actively give our country away to invaders from another nation ?"

If it gets to the point of "invaders", well, I'll have these quotes put on a T-shirt and load every single mag I own, and  say "enough  is enough".  Viva La Revolution!

[SwoopSJ]

It's a sad catch-22 type of situation.  Those, such as ourselves, who are looking forward and see what might happen to our beloved nation are currently thought of as irrational and paranoid relics of the past by mainstream America.  When the majority shifts and eyes begin to open, however, it will be far too late.  Much like the wild pig analogy, most Americans won't notice the boundries going up around them until they are trapped.  Then we will recieve our vindication, but the big "I told you so" will have lost its sweetness when combined with the bitter coating of our loss of freedom.

Swoop

[tombogan03884]

The country is ALREADY being handed over to an invading, though generally, unarmed invader. What else would you call  illegal immigration  if not an invasion by citizens of another country? As the situation is now we could not hold Ca. and most of the Southwest if Mexico said they were taking it back, America would eventually win but we would be starting from a front that would more or less run from Ok. to Or.

[Sponsor]

[mosbear]

Second Law of Thermodynamics: In any cyclic process the entropy will either increase or remain the same.

This could be treated by some of you as not related to the question asked by Tom, but don't rush to judgement till you read the following:

http://www.nexialinstitute.com/social_entropy.htm

Please be patient, don't be intimidated by the formulas.
Nobody can full the nature, RKBA is the means to shorten the cycle. By chance or divine providense our founding fathers stumbled upon the very fundamental principals of human society. A right kind of change is definetely needed so, think globaly and act localy. Election time is right around the corner.

[JohnJacobH]

The whole purpose of this post is to spark debate 
At what point do patriotic, LAW ABIDING citizens say enough is enough and veto govt, action at gunpoint ? To be blunt, when do we start killing socialists?
Do we start when they infiltrate our institutions like Congress, or Schools ?  How about when they desecrate national symbols, Such as burning the flag ? Undermine our Armed Forces ? Promote the views of America's enemies?
Prevent Americans from exercising their rights? Or do we start killing them when they disregard the law of the land?Do you think these things set the bar to low, should we wait until the socialists actively give our country away to invaders from another nation ? Perhaps you think we should wait until the ballot box is no longer effective ?

        All of these things have been true for decades, will we start killing them in time or will it simply be the last bloody gasp of a dieing society ?

 

Well, we came pretty darn close in 1968, but the opportunity passed and here we are forty years later.

They PROMISED us things would be okay if we would just be patient.

Go figure.

[tombogan03884]

Second Law of Thermodynamics: In any cyclic process the entropy will either increase or remain the same.

This could be treated by some of you as not related to the question asked by Tom, but don't rush to judgement till you read the following:

http://www.nexialinstitute.com/social_entropy.htm

Please be patient, don't be intimidated by the formulas.
Nobody can full the nature, RKBA is the means to shorten the cycle. By chance or divine providense our founding fathers stumbled upon the very fundamental principals of human society. A right kind of change is definetely needed so, think globaly and act localy. Election time is right around the corner.

I quit school in the 9th grade, your link made my head hurt  What I get from this is that (in laymans terms ) The more pissed off the population the higher the chances of bottom up change (revolution).
Here's another possibility, McCain wins the popular vote and the Electoral college goes 51% McCain 49% B Ho with a Dem challenge that has the Supreme court ruling for B Ho, What then ?

What I'm getting at is what limit do you set as a trigger point. Where do you say no, I will not compromise any further. Do you resist when the forces of Govt confiscate YOUR guns, or when they start doing it in your community, as in New Orleans, or in your state ?
At what point would YOU say, "I'm an American and a man and I will kill or die before I surrender any more of my liberty."?

[gunman42782]

Very interesting post.  The thing is, there are no more George Washington's or Robert E. Lee's to lead the rest of us into battle.  And if there were, no one would probably follow them in this cynical age.  What I see happening are a bunch of Waco-type stand offs, where the government attempts to dis-arm folks one house at a time.  Some will give them up, some will be taken by surprise, and some will be shooting back with everything they have. 

[tombogan03884]

Very interesting post.  The thing is, there are no more George Washington's or Robert E. Lee's to lead the rest of us into battle.  And if there were, no one would probably follow them in this cynical age.  What I see happening are a bunch of Waco-type stand offs, where the government attempts to dis-arm folks one house at a time.  Some will give them up, some will be taken by surprise, and some will be shooting back with everything they have. 

Let me point out that these 2 were nothing special until challenged by circumstances.