Author Topic: intermediate caliber  (Read 13150 times)

tombogan03884

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Re: intermediate caliber
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2017, 06:33:39 AM »
You're right. It's MORE THAN halfway between them. The last time I looked up the muzzle energy of the 3 rounds, the 5.56x45mm was over 3 times the power of the .45 and about half the power of the 7.62mm. If it's not, then what has changed? Perhaps I should have said the 5.56x45mm is intermediate in power between a .22 rimfire rifle and a .30-06.

Maybe you should accept the fact it's just a frigging varmint rifle and then butt out since you are obviously missing the point that varmint rifles were tried and rejected a 125 years ago with the failure of the Lee Navy.
And all your energy numbers are theoretical bullshit if the bullet is to narrow to dump it's energy into the target, then there's the fact it's basicly shit for barrier penetration. Hey, newsflash for Frank, they quit that Napoleonic standing in the open shit 160years ago.

Big Frank

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Re: intermediate caliber
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2017, 06:32:42 PM »
Maybe you should accept the fact it's just a frigging varmint rifle and then butt out since you are obviously missing the point that varmint rifles were tried and rejected a 125 years ago with the failure of the Lee Navy.
And all your energy numbers are theoretical bullshit if the bullet is to narrow to dump it's energy into the target, then there's the fact it's basicly shit for barrier penetration. Hey, newsflash for Frank, they quit that Napoleonic standing in the open shit 160years ago.

Why don't you accept the facts, butt out, and quit being a self righteous prick?
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

billt

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Re: intermediate caliber
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2017, 07:55:08 AM »
Maybe you should accept the fact it's just a frigging varmint rifle and then butt out since you are obviously missing the point that varmint rifles were tried and rejected a 125 years ago with the failure of the Lee Navy.
And all your energy numbers are theoretical bullshit if the bullet is to narrow to dump it's energy into the target, then there's the fact it's basicly shit for barrier penetration. Hey, newsflash for Frank, they quit that Napoleonic standing in the open shit 160years ago.

This hits the nail on the head. The .223 / 5.56 MM, regardless of how you dress it up, or how many rounds you stuff into the magazine, is still nothing more than a varmint cartridge..... And always has been. You tell this to AR platform fanatics, and they right away get insulted, and want to argue. "It's better to wound in battle than to kill, and the 5.56 creates terrible wounds"..... and all of that bullshit.

It doesn't change the fact it's still a varmint cartridge. A deer has a cardiovascular system very similar to a man. And is considered by many to be about as difficult to kill. The .223 round is ILLEGAL to hunt deer with in several states because it lacks sufficient energy to make clean kills. I've never been able to figure out the logic, that if it's not enough gun for deer, how can it be for war?

I forget what the amount of 5.56 MM rounds to kill ratio was in Vietnam, but it was off the chart. So soldiers were able to carry more ammunition to spray into the jungle. This was an "advantage" how? Big magazines, (20-30 as opposed to 8 in the Garand in WW II), and a bunch of spray and pray full auto fire accomplished exactly what? Marksmanship took a back seat to, "volume of fire". I've never been able to wrap my head around that type of thinking. Especially with the lack of results it has obtained.

Then, to frost the cake and light the candles, someone got the clever idea to neck up this varmint round to take .30 caliber bullets. (.300 Blackout). The standard AK round is better, cheaper, and more plentiful.  So what's the big advantage to the .300 Blackout, other than the fact that all of these same guys who love to argue how wonderful the .223 is, are now all jumping on the .300 Blackout bandwagon? It doesn't make sense to me. If you want a good .30 caliber round, you have had the .308 for decades. Everything else seems like little more than a commercial and financial distraction.

I have AR's in both .223 and .308. In battle I don't even have to think about which one I would want to carry. It's a no brainer. Especially with good optics.

tombogan03884

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Re: intermediate caliber
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2017, 08:09:25 AM »
There ya go.
Frank should take his own advice.

Rastus

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Re: intermediate caliber
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2017, 08:10:15 AM »
Everyone out here dissin' the poodle shooters....
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
-William Pitt, British Prime-Minister (1759-1806)
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Re: intermediate caliber
« Reply #25 on: Today at 04:52:22 PM »

Big Frank

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Re: intermediate caliber
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2017, 12:33:48 PM »
Whether or not it's a varmint cartridge, and it basically is, the 5.56x45mm is still intermediate in power between a pistol and main battle rifle. I don't know how anyone can deny that.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

Timothy

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Re: intermediate caliber
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2017, 12:51:22 PM »
100,000 rounds per dead Vietcong fighter I recall...

tombogan03884

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Re: intermediate caliber
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2017, 12:56:46 PM »
100,000 rounds per dead Vietcong fighter I recall...

Yeah. Some people are to damned stupid to understand the difference between fighting and plinking.

tombogan03884

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Re: intermediate caliber
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2017, 12:59:21 PM »
Whether or not it's a varmint cartridge, and it basically is, the 5.56x45mm is still intermediate in power between a pistol and main battle rifle. I don't know how anyone can deny that.


8 mm Kurz  and 7.62X39 even you SHOULD be able to see they are reduced power rifle rounds not glorified squirrel guns.

Big Frank

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Re: intermediate caliber
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2017, 10:23:53 PM »


8 mm Kurz  and 7.62X39 even you SHOULD be able to see they are reduced power rifle rounds not glorified squirrel guns.

Yeah. They're intermediate in power too.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

 

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