NEW FORUM RULES 9/07/08 — Please Read!

[PegLeg45]

This is something that's been bugging me, Suppressors are regulated under NFA, a FEDERAL law, if you pay the tax and do the paperwork FEDERAL govt. says have fun. How can a STATE over ride FEDERAL law and say no ?

MB, I've been thinking about this since I first read your "turd  post",You wrote "Does the fact that virtually every Colt Gold Cup will eventually snap the roll pin that holds the rear sight in place and launch the sight into the heavens — something that has been common knowledge for decades — make Colt Gold Cups turds?" the answer to that is YES. granted things made by men fail, however if they consistently fail in the same fashion it is a design flaw that could and SHOULD be fixed. ESPECIALY if it has been common knowledge for decades. I realize that production machining is not your thing, you shoot guns, help design guns write about guns, but you do not manufacture, guns or anything else of the sort so here goes. In manufacturing they have what is called "the corrective action process in quality control" The whole process is summed up by any 3 year old, WHY? Why were these items sent back? Because the rear sight came off. Why ? because the roll pin snapped. Why? OK I don't know why the roll pins snap so I'll skip to the next question, Can we fix the problem ? Yes, since the problem is holding 2 parts together we have options such as drilling and tapping to add a screw to existing items or a tack weld even. The next question in the process is can we prevent this from happening again ? Again since the problem is holding 2 parts together the answer is yes, redesign the sight mounting system to be stronger and either do away with the roll pin or retain it only as a secondary method of retention as it is not enough by itself, Such redesigns might be using a dovetail, or a larger dovetail, possibly using screws to attach the sight instead of pins. Since I don't specifically remember ever seeing a Gold cup I really can't give detailed info on the fix, but I think you get my drift. If a mass produced item consistently fails in the same manner YES it is a turd, it may be one you can work with as in this case, but it is an engineering failure that a company can and WILL fix if it respects its customers.
Unfortunately, to many companies take the attitude of the 19th century robber baron (railroad tycoon, I forget which one ) who said "Damn the consumer".

That's a damn good point, Tom.
Having worked in a competitive, QC-driven industry, I should have thought of that angle also.
Thanks.

 

[ellis4538]

Having read the latest posts I must add another to my first...We the consumer must take part of the blame for TURDS real or imagined.  I have waited with bated breath for such and such to appear for a long time after I read/heard/whatever about it.  I have cussed under and over my breath the many manufacturers who do this.  I thought it was great Ruger introduced their latest during "Red October".  They must have heard me ranting about other gun makers taking so long to release a gun they had introed x years ago or an accessory mfg. for the same thing.  I also have to admit that they did a good job in two respects...1) There were a bunch , TURDS or NOT, ready for the pipeline and 2) they came up with a fix in a fair amount of time (yea, I know the fix doesn't work too well - give it a chance- and it seemed like forever if you were waiting for your box to arrive - I wasn't!), but still they did do a pretty good job.  I fault them for one and only one thing...not responding in writing/on the web/whatever to our concerns.  MAYBE NEXT TIME.  And finally, no one would have imagined the LCP would have made such an instant impact sales wise.

Rant mode OFF

J Another of MHO

Richard

[tombogan03884]

Tom, here's what I think. The NFA passed in the 30's when State's Rights was a big deal and the Feds did not have the now-prevalent inclination to come in and "Federalize" everything. The language recognizes the right of the States to more strictly regulate firearms as defined under Sec 5861, but retains the Federal law as a minimum, "reasonable" standard.

 If you are a Federal licensee and Special Occupational Taxpayer (NFA FFL), you are generally exempt from what firearms a State restricts or bans under State law. But if you are just a regular guy, if the State says NO, the Feds concur.

THATS where I have a problem with NC. Suppressors are harder to qualify for than full auto. Diffrent, more restricted regulation, which would end up costing about 3 Grand for a can for a .22.

Mac.

Thank you for the lesson Mac.

Having read the latest posts I must add another to my first...We the consumer must take part of the blame for TURDS real or imagined.  I have waited with bated breath for such and such to appear for a long time after I read/heard/whatever about it.  I have cussed under and over my breath the many manufacturers who do this.  I thought it was great Ruger introduced their latest during "Red October".  They must have heard me ranting about other gun makers taking so long to release a gun they had introed x years ago or an accessory mfg. for the same thing.  I also have to admit that they did a good job in two respects...1) There were a bunch , TURDS or NOT, ready for the pipeline and 2) they came up with a fix in a fair amount of time (yea, I know the fix doesn't work too well - give it a chance- and it seemed like forever if you were waiting for your box to arrive - I wasn't!), but still they did do a pretty good job.  I fault them for one and only one thing...not responding in writing/on the web/whatever to our concerns.  MAYBE NEXT TIME.  And finally, no one would have imagined the LCP would have made such an instant impact sales wise.

Rant mode OFF

J Another of MHO

Richard

I would not call that a rant Richard, You are bringing up some very good points. If the consumers had been happier with the SR9 its self Ruger would still be being hailed as hero's for the manner of its introduction, Also while people complain about the length of time to get their shipping box the turn around on them seems to be fairly quick, especially when you consider that the work is being done by whoever Supervisors can spare from production lines that still have to be kept running, and only in 1 facility. All the recall work is probably being done by 5 or 6 people working their tails off.

[Big Frank]

This may be good news for owners of certain un-named pistols. You can indeed polish a turd.    I saw it on last week's MythBusters.

[Ruger-55]

Hey jaybet, I never took anything you said to heart . I think that as people we should be able to express our selfs with in reason and not be hate full about anything . I belive in getting my money's worth when I buy some thing or expressing my opion about some thing with out being hatefull . but what do we need to do to get the companys to listen to our concerns??? Yes we can call them but do they listen?? They make a product that people depend on ( with there lives) so we must do what we must BUT with a smart mind ......

[Sponsor]

[Ruger-55]

  After reading page 1-12 on this subject I feel that there is a right way and a wrong way of doing things ... If anyone has a problem with any thing they buy and are not happy with it TAKE IT BACK and get your money back......... But on the other hand ( and I'm guilty of this) some people let there mouth over load there a**.  But like I said earlyer what is a person to do when they get no where............. Guns are not cheap kids toys they are a peice of machined metal that was made to either kill or defend your self or a loved one .....  If the 2nd amen. didn't say anything about the right to bear arms we would not be having this discustion or would we ?