Greenie inanity

[TAB]

I have solar on my well with battery  back up.   That way I always have water.  I also have a auto generator ( many portables too)   not that  ibam worried about  extreme outages, but cheap insurance  is nice.   

[billt]

TAB,

Have you ever heard of Natural Gas being cut off to homes in an emergency? I've been tossing around possibly getting one of those "whole house" generators. Most run on Natural Gas. I've never heard of gas service being disrupted. Except of course in a major earthquake, where mains get ruptured. But that's quite rare compared to electric service going out.

Right now my only generator is a little 600 watt portable Honda I bought back in the 80's. It still runs like a top. But 600 watts won't even run a fridge.

[Solus]

TAB,

Have you ever heard of Natural Gas being cut off to homes in an emergency? I've been tossing around possibly getting one of those "whole house" generators. Most run on Natural Gas. I've never heard of gas service being disrupted. Except of course in a major earthquake, where mains get ruptured. But that's quite rare compared to electric service going out.

Right now my only generator is a little 600 watt portable Honda I bought back in the 80's. It still runs like a top. But 600 watts won't even run a fridge.

That appears to be a viable choice, Bill.  The last place to run out of fuel would be the NG supply point.  Also, as a backup, the do make those NG generators as 3 fuel types...NG, LP and gasoline...only thing missing would be fuel oil and having a 200 gal tank out back..  You can get them set up to kick in when your normal power goes out, so you won't see much down time if you go that route.

[Timothy]

Bill, Mr Bane has a full system at his bunker, maybe you can send him a PM or he’ll chime in...

[alfsauve]

Solar makes sense in the right situation.  For emergency and shtf, yes, not when local power is running 10 cents a kWh.  Of course if someone gives it too you one then by all means take it. 

Cars have a different problem.  It's not so much how far they will go on a charge, though that's part of it, but where do you charge them, and how long does it take?   A new model Tesla might get me from here to Lake City, but how long do I cool my heels waiting to "fill up"?    16 hours on a 120V charger.  4-6 on a 240V one?   Even 1-2 hours on a super charger, if I can find one, adds interminable time to my trip.

[Sponsor]

[Big Frank]

TAB,

Have you ever heard of Natural Gas being cut off to homes in an emergency? I've been tossing around possibly getting one of those "whole house" generators. Most run on Natural Gas. I've never heard of gas service being disrupted. Except of course in a major earthquake, where mains get ruptured. But that's quite rare compared to electric service going out.

Right now my only generator is a little 600 watt portable Honda I bought back in the 80's. It still runs like a top. But 600 watts won't even run a fridge.

A fridge? 600 watts won't even run a coffee maker. I found a cheap $30 Mr. Coffee online and the specs said it's 900 watts. That's the same as my microwave, which is less powerful than most.

I've had natural gas for 27 years here and a couple of years at my last address. I've never had any interruption in all that time, except when I got a new meter. That may have taken 5 minutes.

In regards to my earlier post, I sometimes get emails from the power company to do surveys, and I filled one out today. They talked about how they charge a higher rate for electricity after the first 600 kilowatt hours of use per month, from June-September, and the regular rate for the rest of the year. They asked if I'd rather pay a higher rate 2pm-7pm on weekdays year-round, or just keep it the way it is. I use more than 600 kilowatt hours of electricity per month running 2 window air conditioners and a box fan. For the time being I pay more for electricity in the summer, but maybe they'll start charging me more every weekday of the year instead. Either way I'll be paying more during the peak demand time of the year, or the peak demand time of the week. Both are times when west facing solar panels would actually help.

My house is small and square and has a pyramid hip roof. If the east, south, and west sides of the roof were all covered with solar panels, I still don't know if would be enough to run an air conditioner, or even a coffee maker.

[Solus]

Coffee makers will draw more power than a refrigerator.  Devices that generate heat quickly draw the power.  Toasters, coffee makers, electric skillets, etc.

[Big Frank]

Coffee makers will draw more power than a refrigerator.  Devices that generate heat quickly draw the power.  Toasters, coffee makers, electric skillets, etc.

I know that anything that makes heat uses a lot of electricity, but some fridges use 750-800 watts. I thought it was actually more when the compressor kicks in. My friend used, I think, an 1800 watt or bigger generator at his cabin until he got it hooked up to the power grid. With nothing else running you could tell by the sound of the generator when his little fridge kicked in.

[Rastus]

Affordable solar cell technology that is 30% efficient and lasts for 20 years is needed for solar power to make economic sense.  There is research technology out there that is 40+% efficient but it may cost 20-100 times as much as a 10% cell...it's research for product development not product.

15 years ago it would have cost me $185k to get off the grid with a payout around 24-30 years as I recall.  A big problem is that, despite cells having a "20 year life" their efficiency degrades way before that being "good" for 8-12 years.

Bill, that's a good point on natural gas because it is reliable supply since it's coming from high pressure pipelines not generally connected to electricity but compressed with their own gas fueled prime movers driving the compressors from the wellhead to the home.  Another great point on natural gas is that the engines are really clean and will be really reliable to start and run for when you need them.  Propane and butane natural gas liquids stored in a tank powering a generator closely follow natural gas on reliability.  However, any natural gas or NGL generator will be expensive to run.  The least expensive standby with the most power per $$$ of fuel is diesel.  Not quite as reliable overall compared to natural gas but the best bang for the buck.  Myself, I'm acquiring a Lister type slow speed diesel because they are the most reliable diesel, can burn cooking oil once warmed up and unlike all the other stuff can be trouble-shot and worked on by a child....and survive EMP since they are all mechanical...I'm drawing up a place to put one or two this month. 

Another problem with solar people forget...the cells get dust on them and lose sunlight and therefore output...so they are not 100% maintenance free they need cleaning. 

For a refrigerator I like the natural gas or propane units.  They aren't cheap...but no electricity at all for off-the-grid operations or to have a working refrigerator/freezer post EMP event.  Medium sized ones run with about 0.7 gallons a day of propane and I have an underground 500 gallon tank (usable volume only 400 gallons).  That alone will supply a 18-19 months of refrigeration and freezing for ~$40 a month in I-don't-care-if-there-is-no-electricity fuel use. 

 

[TAB]

I don't have the option for natural gas at my house. It is propane or Nothing at All. I have two thousand gallon tanks, they are about 4 feet in diameter and about 16 feet long. Yes it hurts when the propane guy comes to fill up but I don't have to do it often



As to the question about natural gas generators, most of them have conversion kits so you can run them on propane. None of which are plug-and-play though. You normally have to do things like change orifice and occasionally diaphragms. They normally take about 10 minutes to do, but if it's in bad weather