Author Topic: The Ruger Charger...will this work?  (Read 22468 times)

les snyder

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Re: The Ruger Charger...will this work?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2018, 11:02:31 PM »
Bob... I'm primarily a competition oriented shooter, and for about 3 years we held a monthly 3 gun match that used .22lr for the long gun, with center fire pistol and shotgun... that way we could shoot some light weight steel targets originally designed for the Sportman's Team Challenge, and be shot on a range designed for pistol use

my CMMG conversion unit  started with the drop in chamber insert for a 5.56 barrel, and a couple thousand rounds were shot in  practice for the Ft Benning 3 gun matches... after a couple of years, I opted for the dedicated CMMG barrel to improve the accuracy...when the competition shooting began, the overlooked problems with the conversion unit and magazines showed up... a broken extractor was replaced with a TACCOM unit, as was the recoil spring...without a dedicated bolt hold open, the follower of the Black Dog, CMMG OEM, and Brownells mags would catch the bolt for a last round hold open, and this started causing problems... the best of those magazines for me were the X Form from Black Dog (edited) with the metal feed lips...

I noticed that friends shooting the SW 15-22's did not seem to have the magazine related problems that I incurred, so I tried one of their mags, and it shot well, just rocked a little in the mag well... when I added the Boonie Packer Better Mag adapter to the mag well, the rocking stopped, and it has a linkage that allows the follower to raise the last round bolt hold open on the AR lower... if you load individual rounds, and release the follower to seat each cartridge, the noses will alternate in the mag... since using that technique, my 15-22 mags have been very good performers...the 15-22 mags use a controlled follower with a fan fold spring, while some of the others use a coil spring that allows more tilt to the followers

from 95-99 I shot the STC with a custom 10/22 which was limited to 10 rounds only in a magazine... the rotary magazine in that configuration was flawless for a bunch of shots... and I learned a lot about 10/22 triggers.. that is why I made the comment about the 10/22 rotary mags vs. Atchisson style mags.... if you have any Steel Challenge competition in your area, you might ask around about the reliability of the .22lr long guns... regards

I have a takeoff 10/22 barrel that may get chopped if I want less than 10", but I envision a Charger that looks like a VZ61 Skorpion in .22lr with angled fore grip and 25 round mags for about $325... I think you may have started me on my next project... regards

les snyder

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Re: The Ruger Charger...will this work?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2018, 11:29:04 AM »
Bob... I was wrong on the metal topped magazines.. they are the X Form, from BlackDog that worked the best of the non 15-22 mags... picked up a take down Charger to play with... a Vortex Spitfire gives very good eye relief for a two hand taco hold

Dirty Bob

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Re: The Ruger Charger...will this work?
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2018, 09:41:28 PM »
Thank you, Les! 
I really want to try building a .22LR AR upper sometime, though it obviously can be frustrating. Thank you for spelling out what worked and what didn't.

At least for now, I think I'm much better off with a Charger project. I'm still short of funds, but here's a build list for a simple Charger pistol for offhand shooting:

Simple Charger Build
  • Ruger Charger with polymer stock, threaded barrel - $250 (used)
  • PMACA Light Weight Chassis in black anodized finish - $125
  • KAK Shockwave Blade Pistol buffer tube - Midway #918131 $20 - for paracord wrap and crutch tip
  • Trueshot Technologies sight set - $69
  • AR-STONER A2 flash hider - Midway, $8 - Primarily to protect muzzle
Total: $472

Since the buffer tube's empty, and the back of the chassis should be closed, I can put a lightweight cleaning kit in there.

All in all, this looks like a light, simple setup that should be quick, yet it should provide good, challenging  practice out to 100 yards or so. I will want to mount an optic as soon as funds permit.

You want it a Charger that looks like a Scorpion? I would love for this project to look like a North Vietnamese K-50M subgun. It was their version of the Soviet SMGs of WWII. It's based on the Chinese Type 50, which was itself a Chinese version of the Soviet PPSh-41. Compared to the PPSh-41 and the Type 50, the K-50M had its barrel cooling sleeve trimmed to three inches, and a front sight similar to that of the French MAT-49 SMG was added to the barrel. The Vietnamese also added a pistol grip and a sliding wire stock, which were also inspired by the French MAT-49. The K-50M was 1/2 kg. lighter than the original PPSh-41. It used a 35-round, curved stick magazine.

You can see a photo at: http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2010/06/K50M2-1.jpg

The sliding braces by SB Tactical have been calling me, and I've even been thinking about making a wood grip to mimic the K-50M. I've got it bad!

All my best,
Dirty Bob
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les snyder

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Re: The Ruger Charger...will this work?
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2018, 10:15:36 PM »
Bob...check you length of pull for the crutch tip only.... I use the 8 1/2" KAK SB15 tubes on my ARs with just a furniture tip and get nose to charging handle if I square up to the target... unless the chassis for the Charger is extended more than an AR, I think you will want a longer tube

Big Frank

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Re: The Ruger Charger...will this work?
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2018, 10:16:56 PM »
Don't forget to buy a crush washer or peel washer for the flash hider so you can clock it. If you aren't shooting prone in the dust you may be able to find an A1 flash hider cheaper. Someone might even give you one for free. It only needs a split lock washer that's around $1.25. Most hardware stores would have one even cheaper if you don't care if it's parkerized. Crush washers are around 3 bucks and peel washers are around 5 bucks. Those prices are all from one site and will vary elsewhere. Crush washers are made for one time use only. If you want to put the flash hider on a different gun you'll need another washer. I save the layers I peel off of peel washers in case I want to switch flash hiders/muzzle brakes/comps again.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

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Re: The Ruger Charger...will this work?
« Reply #15 on: Today at 01:00:16 PM »

Dirty Bob

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Re: The Ruger Charger...will this work?
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2018, 10:39:22 PM »
Bob...check you length of pull for the crutch tip only.... I use the 8 1/2" KAK SB15 tubes on my ARs with just a furniture tip and get nose to charging handle if I square up to the target... unless the chassis for the Charger is extended more than an AR, I think you will want a longer tube
Good point! I'll have to check into that. I usually like the Shockwave Blade brace back a bit on the tube. I think I could use just about any tube, as long as it can't be used with rifle stock. With an A1 tube, I could drill out all the threads from the end and file the end flat, so it can't be used with a stock. I don't even own a rifle stock for an AR. The enlarged hole would be covered by the crutch tip.

Thank you also for the advice on the flash hider and washers. I don't think .22LR in a 10-inch barrel develops enough flash for the difference between A1 and A2 to really matter, including the dust issue. I'd also be open to the Ruger short flash hider, if I run across one at a good price, but I think an A1 is probably a great choice for me.

Thank you!
Bob
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les snyder

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Re: The Ruger Charger...will this work?
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2018, 08:01:02 AM »
Bob... the standard rifle length tube was too long for me, though worked better than the shorter carbine tube or pistol tube, although I use an A1 stock for my competition rifles...the bare tube gave a different cheek weld

if you run across a printable ATF letter regarding the current ruling on vertical fore grips, would you please comment on location... thanks... a vertical fore grip, on the slanted fore end of a Charger is not really vertical to the barrel

Big Frank

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Re: The Ruger Charger...will this work?
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2018, 06:12:00 PM »
If it's beyond 45 degrees from the bore axis that would probably be considered vertical. It certainly wouldn't be horizontal at that point.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

les snyder

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Re: The Ruger Charger...will this work?
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2018, 10:38:03 PM »
Jumbo... thank you... I've seen a partial letter that states basically what you have said... I try to have actual copies in my gun case when shooting my AR and now Charger pistols... if you happen to run across an actual complete ATF letter, I would appreciate some guidance to its location... I've seen a partial, but I would like to have the actual signed letter

Big Frank

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Re: The Ruger Charger...will this work?
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2018, 12:07:23 AM »
I haven't seen a letter on it, but have noticed that many of the angled foregrips for ARs and such are less than 45 degrees. Maybe 30 degrees, just going from memory, and should be okay on a pistol. If 45 degrees IS the magic number, and you ever come across an LEO who can't tell without a protractor if it's more than or less than 45 degrees, I think you'd be fairly well screwed.
""It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency." - George Washington. Letter to Alexander Hamilton, Friday, May 02, 1783

THE RIGHT TO BUY WEAPONS IS THE RIGHT TO BE FREE - A. E. van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher

 

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