Author Topic: Electric Cars  (Read 5317 times)

alfsauve

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Electric Cars
« on: June 29, 2020, 10:34:09 AM »
I looked at the Nikola line of electric vehicles.   Tesla went after the rich crowd, but Nikola is concentrating on trucking.  As in semi-tractor trucks.  Hydrogen/Electric hybrids.

They have a pickup, The Badger.   ~600mile range.   Looked promising.  Today starts where you can put down a refundable $250 deposit to get on the list.   I was thinking about it, except they came out with the prices.   $60,000 gets you the 300 mile range battery version.   $80,000 for the hydrogen  hybrid and the 600 mile range.  I'll pass.

Middle son has a reservation on the Tesla Cybertruck.   If they ever start shipping.   Ugly thing but could be quite functional for urban usage.
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TAB

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Re: Electric Cars
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2020, 10:40:58 AM »
Whats the range towing 10k # ? thats the number that is important.  That will actually tell you what you want to know.  A truck that can not be used as a truck is worthless
I always break all the clay pigeons,  some times its even with lead.

tombogan03884

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Re: Electric Cars
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2020, 10:47:27 AM »
I don't know Alf.
I know people buying F 150's, and Ram's paying just as much, so the $ isn't much of a factor, and the average gas tank, 10 gal, 30 MPG ?
When you mentioned the name before, I just assumed it was a Tesla, the last Nikola was darn it.   ;D
I would be interested in hearing more about how they work out.
What about battery disposal ?

billt

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Re: Electric Cars
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2020, 02:09:34 PM »
Out here in the desert Southwest I don't see them catching on. Or in the frigid north, because of temperature extremes. Both high and low temps are hard on batteries. And they reduce performance, as well as battery life significantly. Also as was mentioned, what can they tow, and what is the range when doing it? Nowhere near enough to compete with gas and Diesel's.

Here it is 200 miles to Phoenix, and 150 to Las Vegas. And 300 miles to L.A. Without much in between but desert. Another thing is recharge times. If it takes 8 hours for a full recharge, or even 6, that's going to hurt. Especially when you can refill a tank in 5 minutes and be on your way. I think sales of these things will always lag behind gas and diesel trucks.

At least until they can come up with replaceable batteries that can be swapped out in a couple of minutes, like a cordless driver / drill, for the same or less than a tank full of gas. And building a nationwide network like that will cost billions, and is years, if not decades away. A semi that has to recharge for 8 hours every 400 miles is worthless. If it was carrying fresh produce from the Imperial Valley, it would be rotten by the time it reached the East Coast.

Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars or trucks will never be productive. Because Hydrogen requires more energy to make, than it provides. That doesn't matter on a Moon mission, paid for by the taxpayers. But it does for a family of 4 driving to grandma's on dad's salary. While they can and do offer a limited alternative for city dwellers for bopping around town. They will never provide a full blown replacement for fossil fueled vehicles.

alfsauve

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Re: Electric Cars
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2020, 02:18:51 PM »
They will never provide a full blown replacement for fossil fueled vehicles.

I tend to agree, but keep holding out hope.

Looking at the Nikola specs on their trucks, they just fall a tad short of being useful.

Talking with the Disney people last year about why the boat launches aren't electric and they said the recharge time is the killer.  Said they're working with industry to figure a way to replace large battery packs, safely and quickly, while at the dock.  They don't want to have to cycle a boat out of service every time the pack needs changing. 
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Re: Electric Cars
« Reply #5 on: Today at 03:15:30 AM »

tombogan03884

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Re: Electric Cars
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2020, 02:45:43 PM »
Bill's missing a point, If he runs out of gas he's screwed. if his battery gets to low he can spread out a solar panel.
Slow ?
Not as slow as waiting for gas to condense from the air.
Maxim was selling machine guns well before propellent technology could support the mechanism,
Da Vinci built an airplane saying then that it would need some type of engine, and his weight allowance was fairly close.
Same thing here.
The need for this or that improvement will give research a direction,  after that it's only a matter of time.
I have nothing but disdain for humanities morals, politics, or intelligence, but their ingenuity is amazing.

sammy00

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Re: Electric Cars
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2021, 04:01:25 AM »
I like electric cars. The environmental friendliness of the electric car is its huge advantage. Another advantage is that the car is very quiet and does not require large maintenance costs. But there are big downsides. The new car is quite expensive. And even if you have already bought such a car, you need to charge it somewhere. And it seems to me that this is the biggest problem, because we do not have a well-developed infrastructure of charging stations. I think over time it will all improve and develop, but personally I will wait with such a purchase.

billt

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Re: Electric Cars
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2021, 04:32:52 AM »
I like electric cars. The environmental friendliness of the electric car is its huge advantage. Another advantage is that the car is very quiet and does not require large maintenance costs. But there are big downsides. The new car is quite expensive. And even if you have already bought such a car, you need to charge it somewhere. And it seems to me that this is the biggest problem, because we do not have a well-developed infrastructure of charging stations. I think over time it will all improve and develop, but personally I will wait with such a purchase.

All of this "clean / green energy" simply isn't there yet. From both an infrastructure and / or technology standpoint. Until electric cars can compete with gas and diesel powered vehicles in a load / pulling power, (semi truck transportation), and a distance before recharging, and most importantly, TIME to recharge, they are not going to be acceptable replacements. About all they amount to presently, is an impressive toy for the progressive movement. That make them feel good about themselves, and what they want.

It's no different with wind and solar replacing fossil fuel for home and industrial use. We saw a glimpse of that reality with the all but total failure of the Texas power grid this past Winter. The fact of the matter is, the wind doesn't blow all the time, and the Sun doesn't shine all the time. And battery technology is nowhere near where it needs to be, in order to make up for the rest through electrical storage.

Bill Gates, (love him or hate him), commissioned a study on battery power. It found that all of the batteries presently existing on the planet today fully charged, would only supply enough electricity to last the world 7 minutes. That is nowhere near enough to compensate for the energy that wind and solar cannot provide.

Solar panel technology has improved to around 90% to 95%. Meaning solar panels are about as developed as they can be. Now, or in the future. Wind has it's own issues and problems in regards to cost, maintenance, as well as longevity. In order for it to either break even, or else pay off. Problems with delamination and damage of the fiberglass blades is occurring much sooner, and is far worse than was originally anticipated. This is becoming a massively expensive problem. And most importantly, until the entire world, (think China), is on the exact same page as we are in all of this, none of it is going to matter in the least. At this point all we're doing is blowing smoke up each others collective asses.

Jim Kennedy-ar154me

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Re: Electric Cars
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2021, 07:39:15 AM »

Middle son has a reservation on the Tesla Cybertruck.   If they ever start shipping.   Ugly thing but could be quite functional for urban usage.

And having bullet-proof glass doesn't hurt!!!!  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
The time for action is upon us and the enemy is at our gates. Let us not allow them one more inch of advancement but instead throw them through the gates of Hell.

PegLeg45

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Re: Electric Cars
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2021, 01:53:48 PM »
Very green indeed.
Pffft.

"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

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