Warning...

[Rastus]

I've been on 3,   My point was if the law says something and you vote not guilty based on your feelings.   Then you have no place on a jury.

 

Did they ask for your license number when you showed up?  Tell you why.  They run out to the parking lot to look at the cars to try to make certain they are getting a sympathetic jury for the defense.  A few people I have worked with who's wives were public defenders bragged about doing that....they said one of the number one things to exclude were people with NRA stickers on their cars, then Republicans, etc...  Seems that it's a fairly well known tactic in the public defender world...

If I get offered jury duty again I may have to put a save the whales sticker on my car in the parking lot....maybe a PETA or something.  Two can play that game.

[tombogan03884]

I've been on 3,   My point was if the law says something and you vote not guilty based on your feelings.   Then you have no place on a jury.

The "Law" is not always right, that is the whole point of "Jury nullification". According to your reasoning Hitler did nothing wrong because German law said it was OK to kill Jews.
As to you serving on a jury, I've been on several air planes over the years, would that mean you'd be OK with me flying the next one YOU'RE on ?

[2HOW]

Whether people want to admit it or not, we are currently engaged in a civil war in America waged between those of us who recognize that freedom defines the difference between living and merely existing, and those who proclaim that freedom is too dirty, too expensive, too selfish, too unfair and simply too dangerous to be enjoyed by this and future generations. When I observe potential tyrants whisper “danger,” and watch far too many of my fellow Americans nearly trample one another in their haste to surrender yet more freedom in exchange for more false promises of security, I greatly fear for the future of our Republic.

If America falls, she will fall from within. Perhaps a fitting epitaph for a Nation that achieved her greatness not from a mindset of “safety first,” but rather “live free or die,” but whose citizenry ultimately lost their backbone along the way will be simply this:

“Too ignorant, too lazy, and too craven to remain free.”
unknown

[TSB]

The law that TAB describes is clearly shown in a now forgotten case...The People vs. OJ Simpson....

Please explain to me kind sir, whom was best served in that case? 

You cannot believe that the law is always justified in it's thinking.....The only way that an outspoken gun owner would end up on a jury in a shooting case, would be if he lied about that fact he believed in the RKBA.....

I will never be picked for a tort case..why?  Because I've been run over by a minivan and subsequently sued the driver of said van....No defense attorney on the planet would allow me to stay if I tell the truth about my experiences.....

[Rastus]

Whether people want to admit it or not, we are currently engaged in a civil war in America waged between those of us who recognize that freedom defines the difference between living and merely existing, and those who proclaim that freedom is too dirty, too expensive, too selfish, too unfair and simply too dangerous to be enjoyed by this and future generations. When I observe potential tyrants whisper “danger,” and watch far too many of my fellow Americans nearly trample one another in their haste to surrender yet more freedom in exchange for more false promises of security, I greatly fear for the future of our Republic.

If America falls, she will fall from within. Perhaps a fitting epitaph for a Nation that achieved her greatness not from a mindset of “safety first,” but rather “live free or die,” but whose citizenry ultimately lost their backbone along the way will be simply this:

“Too ignorant, too lazy, and too craven to remain free.”
unknown

Truth.

[Sponsor]

[m25operator]

The question here is the LAW, as a juror, your not supposed to know it, the lawyers are supposed to present it, and the judge to clarify it, but that don't make it so. I have been on a few juries where the law reads, you must vote the way the judge decides then why were We there. As students of the constitution, We must see what is fair and unfair and decide what is just, law or judge be damned. Absolutely listen intently to the arguments, and case law, but in the end, don't get pencil whipped into deciding something you know is wrong. I have been on several jury pools where the beginning question, was " if this man is found guilty of 1st degree murder, could you give him probation?" and if you say no, you get to talk to the judge, and could be incarcerated yourself, for comtempt of court. It is only the jurors who can counteract the activist judges, legislating from the bench. Better to be judged by 12 than 1 judge.

[tombogan03884]

Tom, I agree with eririre12. However, there are key differences between us and the Freedom Marchers and Civil Rights workers.

Except for the rich Northern liberals who went south to march and work, like the two from NYC (?) who were killed along with a local black worker, many of the marchers were poor blacks. In essence, they had nothing to lose. Most of us are people with lots of things to lose - stable families, jobs, mortgages, etc. And how many of us live in places where a misdeameanor charge could be used by a local cop, prosecutor or judge to eliminate your firearms ownership in one fell swoop. Then the burden of challenging them would fall on you - financially and time-wise.

I do agree we need to do more than just join the NRA - which is why I have been contacting my senators and rep (all 1 of him) on a number of topics. Sadly, in a red state, they are blue of blue - Dorgan, Conrad and Pomeroy. All are Dems but the y have good ratings from the NRA. That will be for nothing when compared to the power and force brought to bear by Pelosi et al on these guys. Besides, Dorgan is being viewed as a potential insider with the Obama administration, a legislative liaison of sorts.

So, are we ready to hit the streets over a gummint gun grab - face the water cannons - or the police dogs? Doubtful. And we do not want to be prepared to fight the last fight - we need to fight the fight we have been handed. Be like Patton, flexible, adaptable, using what he has to take the fight to the enemy. There will be no set piece battles, there will be thousands of skirmishes - EOs, laws to the local level (like the Pittsburgh ordinance just passed re' reporting gun thefts or become a criminal), use of the press to vilify us even further. And things I can't even think of, other than it is going to be a very long 8 years.

But through it all, we have stay united and be warriors.

Franklin said any one who would trade his liberty for security deserved neither.
The only misdemeanor that can cost you your civil rights is domestic violence.
Pa. has a Pre emption law, Pittsburgs gun laws, like those of Philly (which a judge has already invalidated) aren't worth the paper they are printed on.
If we act NOW we won't be reacting to a government gun grab, we will be pre empting it. In military terms it's called a spoiling attack.
Pathfiders post is exactly the type of BS I was talking about before. If we will not take a vacation , personal, or sick day now to protest something like a newspaper story or local ordnance then there is no point talking about "water cannons and police dogs" because we don't have the guts for it .
If you don't have guts enough to shout, you sure as hell don't have guts enough to shoot.
The gun grabbers are political animals and can be beaten by political means, this means NO compromise. We do not want fair play, our goal is to stack the cards in our favor, "gun nut" = "fag" = ni&%$er= hate crime, being shot while committing a crime means you targeted a gun owner, you get extra time under the "hate crimes" legislation. We must act against the anti gunners, but we must also launch a 2 pronged attack against EVERY ONE else, the first prong is the carrot, actively campaign for pro gun candidates, educate the masses, take new people shooting, submit shooting sports stories to the local media, even talking to strangers in restaurants, take advantage of every opportunity to publicize the history, benefits and fun of shooting, the beauty of the craftsmanship, and the inventiveness of early designers.
The second prong is the one that scares Pathfinder. take a paid vacation day with your friends and picket media outlets that print anti gun stories, you don't need to hit them all, every now and then pick ONE to target, get 25 or 50 people to stand around with signs, "this paper unfair to gun owners" "Gun owner = better citizen" (this is going to be my next blog post) Try to come up with some that stress the civil rights angle,  need to come up with a good chant, short, rhythmic,pointed. do the same thing outside the homes of anti gun politicians, NOTE: call the press BEFORE HAND, when the Cops come and tell you to leave drag your feet, ask why, what authority, etc, but leave,Will overzealous cops bust an occasional head ? Probably, but since you called the press before hand you become the victims of "police brutality", win a law suit and have more money for the cause. Do the same thing at city and State hearings, but there they may handcuff you as they remove you, GREAT, the press you called gets film of Cops hauling off people for exercising their FIRST amendment rights, and we KNOW how the media are about THAT    Remember used properly the media can be a useful tool, just like a good spotting scope, but you need to take care of them. Find a couple of reporters who are at least not hostile to your cause, stick with them (loyalty is a virtue) Have a press release ready listing the high points of your cause,NOT a political manifesto, but a page that sums up the facts about gun owners, the legal background of gun ownership, and the consistent failures of gun control. Remember to include the fact that if the "Anti Civil Rights" groups were truly trying to fight crime they would go after violent offenders, and lenient Judges who let them out to re offend, If they truly cared about children and safety they would embrace things like the "Eddy Eagle" program.
It's 7:30 am and I'm STILL up, I have an eye strain head ache, and my brain just went blank. I think you should be getting the picture. Post comments and suggestions for further actions, different PRACTICLE avenues of attack, I'll check back for ones to add when I write the blog.
Should I use this to start a different thread ?

[Solus]

Right so if you guys had a jury full of anti guners, you would want them to use thier feelings about guns to make up thier mind not facts of the law?       

TAB, the case in question here, the man was given life for self defense because he violated the Law.

The only chance he had was if the jury would feel the law was unjust.  No chance at all against a bad law.   I don't know if I could imprison someone for breaking a law that was so wrong.

[ericire12]

Franklin said any one who would trade his liberty for security deserved neither.

"Give me liberty or give me death" is another great one.

[tombogan03884]

"Give me liberty or give me death" is another great one.

Yes, like Franklin, Patrick Henry supplied several good quotes.