What do the modern shooting sports lack?

[fullautovalmet76]

Keep in mind that some of this is semantics. 

When IDPA claims to "simulate real life events" and then proceeds to tell everyone what is going to happen and, to a large extent, tell them exactly how to solve the problem, the FAIL to do what they claim..... that part is easy.

The next part, in terms of "preparing" people to defend themselves, may be MUCH MORE ACCURATE. IDPA has value, but the participants need to be honest to what those values are and recognize the GAME's limitations.

-RJP

Rob,
When you mentioned our practice should incorporate elements of surprise and spontaneity, you didn't mean the following?

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Just kidding!!!                

I hope the your CFS course went well in Titusville this weekend.

Take care!

[tombogan03884]

Peter Sellars was GREAT. 

[luvmy45]

Keep in mind that some of this is semantics. 

When IDPA claims to "simulate real life events" and then proceeds to tell everyone what is going to happen and, to a large extent, tell them exactly how to solve the problem, they FAIL to do what they claim..... that part is easy.

Rob,

Help me understand what you mean by "simulate real life events." What part of the real life event, say of a car jacking, are you wanting to simulate? That would not be simulated in a IDPA COF. I'm not saying IDPA is perfect it is a game, but I'm struggling to understand what you mean by that.

And I guess I should open this up to all, FullAuto and others, what part of a simulation do you think is missing from IDPA. Please don't turn this into a bashing of the sport, just what you think is missing.

Thank you,

Brian

[tombogan03884]

The SPORTS don't seem to be missing anything as "Sport". If you want "TRAINING" go to a trainer.

[johncasey4]

The part that it is missing is that in real life you have no idea what is about to happen.  You go from "enjoy your fries sir" to "GET THE F OUT OF THE CAR!."  There is no way that these sports can prepare you for what you will do, mainly because you know what is going to happen.  One of the things so far about this forum that has impressed me is the lack of false bravado and chest puffing.  For someone to say "When they come for my car I will just______" is bs, because you don't know what you are going to do.  A lot of times in training we tend to forego the startle reaction at the point of ambush, we don't build it into our routine.  But discounting something that will happen leaves us behind the power curve.  This is something you are not likely to simulate well to a high degree of stress in a course involving live fire, mainly because it is different when you know the targets can't shoot back.  At Valhalla we (Rob, Jeremiah, Brad to some extent and myself) spent a lot of time doing high level simulation stuff.  It is great to see the Spec Ops guy go from hero to homo when he realizes that no one has his back and that his target is now mounted up and pushing his head through the floor.  The same goes for car jacking scenarios, a pop out target is different from a human being walking up to the window and pulling you out by your neck.  IDPA can't simulate that, at least not with live rounds.

[Sponsor]

[PegLeg45]

The part that it is missing is that in real life you have no idea what is about to happen.  You go from "enjoy your fries sir" to "GET THE F OUT OF THE CAR!."  There is no way that these sports can prepare you for what you will do, mainly because you know what is going to happen.  One of the things so far about this forum that has impressed me is the lack of false bravado and chest puffing.  For someone to say "When they come for my car I will just______" is bs, because you don't know what you are going to do.  A lot of times in training we tend to forego the startle reaction at the point of ambush, we don't build it into our routine.  But discounting something that will happen leaves us behind the power curve.  This is something you are not likely to simulate well to a high degree of stress in a course involving live fire, mainly because it is different when you know the targets can't shoot back.  At Valhalla we (Rob, Jeremiah, Brad to some extent and myself) spent a lot of time doing high level simulation stuff.  It is great to see the Spec Ops guy go from hero to homo when he realizes that no one has his back and that his target is now mounted up and pushing his head through the floor.  The same goes for car jacking scenarios, a pop out target is different from a human being walking up to the window and pulling you out by your neck.  IDPA can't simulate that, at least not with live rounds.

Well, that pretty much sums up the bulk of it.
Having been shot at before allows me to agree that you don't know it's coming until it's coming.

 

[ericire12]

The part that it is missing is that in real life you have no idea what is about to happen.  You go from "enjoy your fries sir" to "GET THE F OUT OF THE CAR!."  There is no way that these sports can prepare you for what you will do, mainly because you know what is going to happen.  One of the things so far about this forum that has impressed me is the lack of false bravado and chest puffing.  For someone to say "When they come for my car I will just______" is bs, because you don't know what you are going to do.  A lot of times in training we tend to forego the startle reaction at the point of ambush, we don't build it into our routine.  But discounting something that will happen leaves us behind the power curve.  This is something you are not likely to simulate well to a high degree of stress in a course involving live fire, mainly because it is different when you know the targets can't shoot back.  At Valhalla we (Rob, Jeremiah, Brad to some extent and myself) spent a lot of time doing high level simulation stuff.  It is great to see the Spec Ops guy go from hero to homo when he realizes that no one has his back and that his target is now mounted up and pushing his head through the floor.  The same goes for car jacking scenarios, a pop out target is different from a human being walking up to the window and pulling you out by your neck.  IDPA can't simulate that, at least not with live rounds.

End of discussion..... close the thread!

[luvmy45]

The part that it is missing is that in real life you have no idea what is about to happen.

That makes sense, and in the sport that would be impossible to do, as you can't score someone for not shooting because no bg's came at you.

So, how to you train for that? If you go to a training seminar. Wouldn't you also know that if you enter a shoot house, BG's are in there and you have to engage them? Or if you are put in a car, BG are going to come after you? Even using simunitions or airsoft, you still know that something is going to happen to you, don't you?

I have not done any training with them so I don't know. How do you setup that startle factor in training?

BTW, this thread has morphed, it's not about shooting sports now... so maybe it's time to start a new thread on this.

Thanks,

Brian

[tombogan03884]

I did, it's titled "Surprise ?"

[fullautovalmet76]

This thread has run its course and will be closed. I hope everyone got something useful from it as I did.