Shooting Gallery; Lever Action Self Defense

[Michael Bane]

Gosh...I answered this on one thread, but for the life of me I can't remember which one! Well, it's probably worth answering again...

When you're choosing a home defense weapon, your choice must be dictated by the "lowest common denominator," that is, within reason, the weapon/s that are the most familiar to the least-trained member of the household. I know the manual of arms and stoppage drills for ARs and 1911s in my sleep, but my Sweetie doesn't. She is, however, an enthusiastic cowboy action shooter. She understands lever guns and double-barreled shotguns. So those guns are a part of our home defense armory. If she shot a '97, I'd have a '97 pump gun handy.

My point is I don't feel particularly undergunned with a .44 Magnum lever gun (now a Marlin 1894) and a double-barreled 12-gauge. I can run a lever gun with a bag of ammunition forever, with very little break in the cadence of fire. I can also run a double-barreled shotgun pretty quickly. My bedside pistol is a Sig 226 9mm with 20-round mags, a laser, night sights and and a mounted white light (SureFire). Her bedside gun is a DA revolver with a laser. Even if she defaults to her cowboy training and cocks the revolver, it still goes bang.

I sorta think we spend far too much time sweating a particular piece of hardware or load and not enough time figuring out lines of fire in our houses. If I thought I would be facing MS-13 tomorrow, believe me, I'd have a different battery (and some...interesting...friends staying over!). But I'm not. My whole world view on personal defense is based on realistic threat assessment and appropriate response, and within that context a lever gun, especially a .44 Magnum with at least 240-grain JHPs, is a proven product. If my Sweetie goes to a carbine class, then I'll consider an AR as a bedroom home defense gun.

And Jed,  don't worry about the gun-handling. The gun was visibly empty and the action was visibly open. You're a new USPSA shooter and I will agree with you that the USPSA safety rules are the best in the world...after all, I helped develop and debug them. However, they are NOT universally accepted even in the mainstream shooting sports. Professional shotgunning, for instance — one of the sports the "cowboy guy" comes out of — draws a really clear line between an "unknown" gun and a gun with action open, proving that it is visibly empty.  At shotgun matches you can buy a little plastic nub that laces into your sneakers to allow you to rest the barrel of the shotgun on your toe. I wouldn't do it, but I've filmed the Grand, where everyone does it. Generally, I let professionals do what they will as long as it's not demonstrably  unsafe gun-handling. For instance, in addition to the shotgunners, military snipers do not and will not wear eye protection (and often not hearing protection). They're grown ups, and they do a scary job for a living.

Had the gun's action been closed, it wold have been a different matter.

Hope this clarifies the gun-handling issue.

Michael B

 

[tombogan03884]

You might have also clarified for Ronterry that the "experimentation" with Lever actions for home defense started about 150 years ago.

[DemskeetSkeet]

This lever action episode was awesome! I never knew that the lever action rifle was so versatile.

I have a few questions:

What caliber was the host's lever action winchester?

What was the winchester model?

What price did he say he paid for? I could have sworn he said $100 brand new in box.

I would like to purchase a winchester lever action in a .40, .44 mag, or .45 how much would one of these average?

Thanks! Can't wait for the next show!

Take care
-Matt

[Michael Bane]

Matt...the gun in question is a .44 Magnum Winchester 1894 Trapper model that I bought New-In-Box for $100 cash at a gun show in Denver. Two reasons for the low price — .44 Magnum has never been a particularly popular caliber in the '94, which was designed around rifle-length cartridges like the 30-30. There's a lot of stuff on the Internet that the .44 Magnum cartridge is not reliable in the '94 action, but that has not been my experience with the Trapper, nor with the other .44 Magnum '94s I have owned and shot. Mt Trapper shoots both Magnum and .44 Special length cartridges painlessly.

The second reason the 16 1/2 inch Trapper can occasionally be found cheap is that the gun is not ideally suited for cowboy action shooting (CAS) competition — tube holds 9 rounds, either Magnum or Special, and CAS stages usually require 10 rounds and an empty chamber to start, so the '94 Trapper starts at a disadvantage (although I have shot it in a CAS match or two...so there). The '94 action is definitely longer and hader to throw than the rifle it replaced, the 1892 Winchester, which was designed for the pistol cartridges of the late 19th Century and now available in modern pistol cartridges, and not nearly as quick as the "race-modified" 1873 Winchester replicas that currently dominate CAS.

Since winchester went down a few years ago, prices of the '94s have soared...I have seen NIB Trapper .44s in the vicinity of a grand. I'd say you have a couple of options...haunt your local gunstores. Here in Colorado you can still stumble across used '94s at excellent prices because there are so darn many of the things out there. The second is to look at the zillions of 1892 clones out there. I have one of the Legacy/Puma .44 Magnum carbines, rebuilt by Steve Young, and it is a SWEET gun! Finally, there's plenty of Marlin '94s out there and they are excellent guns. That's what's in my bedroom now, since the Trapper has gotten a spec valuable...

Michael B

Michael B

[DemskeetSkeet]

Matt...the gun in question is a .44 Magnum Winchester 1894 Trapper model that I bought New-In-Box for $100 cash at a gun show in Denver. Two reasons for the low price — .44 Magnum has never been a particularly popular caliber in the '94, which was designed around rifle-length cartridges like the 30-30. There's a lot of stuff on the Internet that the .44 Magnum cartridge is not reliable in the '94 action, but that has not been my experience with the Trapper, nor with the other .44 Magnum '94s I have owned and shot. Mt Trapper shoots both Magnum and .44 Special length cartridges painlessly.

The second reason the 16 1/2 inch Trapper can occasionally be found cheap is that the gun is not ideally suited for cowboy action shooting (CAS) competition — tube holds 9 rounds, either Magnum or Special, and CAS stages usually require 10 rounds and an empty chamber to start, so the '94 Trapper starts at a disadvantage (although I have shot it in a CAS match or two...so there). The '94 action is definitely longer and hader to throw than the rifle it replaced, the 1892 Winchester, which was designed for the pistol cartridges of the late 19th Century and now available in modern pistol cartridges, and not nearly as quick as the "race-modified" 1873 Winchester replicas that currently dominate CAS.

Since winchester went down a few years ago, prices of the '94s have soared...I have seen NIB Trapper .44s in the vicinity of a grand. I'd say you have a couple of options...haunt your local gunstores. Here in Colorado you can still stumble across used '94s at excellent prices because there are so darn many of the things out there. The second is to look at the zillions of 1892 clones out there. I have one of the Legacy/Puma .44 Magnum carbines, rebuilt by Steve Young, and it is a SWEET gun! Finally, there's plenty of Marlin '94s out there and they are excellent guns. That's what's in my bedroom now, since the Trapper has gotten a spec valuable...

Michael B

Michael B

Thank you very much for your wisdom on the lever action. I would prefer a lever action in a .44 mag. I don't do Cowboy Action Shooting so it appears the model you have would be great for me. What was that break down model that was shown on the show? And what kind of price range on that?

Thank you very much Michael! I'll have to keep my eyes open for one at the Gun and knife show on the 14th!

Take care
-Matt

[Sponsor]

[Michael Bane]

The 1892 Winchester breakdown models are from Chiappa in Italy and are distributed in the U.S. by Taylor Firearms and soem to Legacy Sports. They are, however, pricey...int he $1200 range. I have single-handedly badgered them into producing .44 Magnum models...

Michael B

[sanjuancb]

What is this nonsense about a .30-.30 kicking? That's what most 9-10 year old boys in the south start hunting with! Good gravy!

I'd like to see a tactical lever action from Wild West Guns or Jim Brockman though...50 Alaskan would be awesome.

[DemskeetSkeet]

The 1892 Winchester breakdown models are from Chiappa in Italy and are distributed in the U.S. by Taylor Firearms and soem to Legacy Sports. They are, however, pricey...int he $1200 range. I have single-handedly badgered them into producing .44 Magnum models...

Michael B

Very cool Michael, I'll have to look into that but I definitely love that $100 price tag, I wish I could find a deal like that......

[DemskeetSkeet]

I think I've decided on a Puma 44 mag, I'm looking for the best all-around rifle for defense, going out to the range or back yard to shoot for a few hours. I think a 30-30 or high caliber rifle just wouldn't suit me because I can't hunt with a rifle. I saw the winchester trapper at the gun show yesterday, they had $775 on it but that was above their selling point so it was still above $500.

How much do Puma's and Marlin lever action .44 mags runs?

I really like the looks of the stainless Puma rifle, much easier to maintain.

Have you had any mishaps with your 44 mag Puma rifle?

Thanks

Take care
-Matt

[Frisco]

I have a Rossi Model 1892 Winchester Trapper Carbine with the big loop in .357 which I LOVE! And the same set up in .44 Mag.  I see them around here used in the 3-350 range.  If you find one, buy one.  They are a handy little carbine, and fun as all get out to shoot.