Snubby Question

[CDR]

Hey Mike,

Great posting...thanks very much.  Thanks also for the link to Bowen Classic Arms as they look to be a good source for some DA enhancing.   Interesting perspective on your selection of ammunition, by the way, relative to clothing weight.  I'd love to hear some opinions on this issue as this is something most people wouldn't consider...thanks.

Also Mike, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the weight of the 640 in your front pocket as most seem to be divided on this question.  Some think it is way too heavy and you are better off with an Airweight or Scandium, while others say the steel snubby is no problem. Have you had any issues with the weight and I assume you use a pocket holster?

Thanks again.

[Michael Bane]

Mike Daly can't control himself when it comes to custom pistol gurus! I hear he even sent his CAR to Hamilton Bowen for a "slight overhaul and upgrade!"!

Now that I've made fun of my friend, the Bowen snubby sights are just great...they make a world of different in quickly picking up a sight picture. It's hard to argue with a J-frame for simple utility. One of the tings I'm going to cover in the on-going DOWN RANGE CCW series is the idea of the "door gun," and, no, I don't mean an M-60 on a pedestal behind a sliding door...although as I get older and more paranoid, the idea does have some merit.

One of my snubbies lives in a downstairs cabinet not far from the front door. With it are a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster, a brightly colored fanny pack/holster and a couple of full speedloaders. The idea is that because I work in the home, usually in front of a computer, it's a pain in the patootie to "harness up" to run to the conveninece store, etc. I also love outdoor activities like hiking, jogging, bicycling, snowshoeing in the winter, etc. The "door gun" makes it easy for me to have some protection with a minimum of hassle. For the convenience store, stick the Nemesis and gun in pocket; for a short jog, pop the snubby into the fanny pack. One of my excellent winter/spring alternatives is the Sig-Tac Concealed Carry Jacket...I have one of the "tobacco" colored ones that I've worn for a couple of years doing chores; it looks exactly like everyone elses' faded brown utility canvas jacket here in the mountains, the "most invisible" carry device I own. Aside from theubiquitous Carhardts, every hardware store in the mountains offers el-cheapo Carhardt knock-offs, so they're everywhere. I went to dinner the otehr night at a little mountain restaurant and probably 60% of the men in the restaurant and a lot of the women were wearing the same dull jacket...PERFECT! I can't remember which one it was, but one of teh big self-defense newsletters recently had an article on their second concealed carry conference/class, where they mentioned that at the first class, everyone looked either a 5.11 catalog or a recruiting poster for the SEALS. Bu the second conference/class, everyone looked like construction workers. Hmmmmmm, what do I see more of in my day-to-day travels...SEAL Team 4 or construction workers?

Secondly, it helps address the issue of a two-story house. Most of us have the heavy hardware in or near our bedrooms, which, in a 2-story house are usually on the second floor. I've read that I should consider carrying a gun in my usual carry rig when I'm in the house...well, there have been a couple of times when I did just that (go back to the first CCW video on "risk factors"). Strangely enough, as a reporter, I occasionally pissed people off — I can hear Walt and Daly laughing now! "Occasionally!?!" they're thinking. But generally, I'm glad to have a little time when I'm NOT carrying a gun on my belt. You have to "stage" a self-defense firearm close to where you might actually need it...downstairs.

Michael B

PS: Daly, the .44 Maggie snubbie "car gun" project continues apace with Jim Stroh...I think I'm going to have him set it up with C&S "Extreme Duty" fixed sigts regulated for 240-grain JHPs on the theory that a car gun gets bounced around a lot, and you don't shoot a big snub all that much for fun. I'll practice with an all-steel Taurus 3-inch .44 Special, whicih is pretty much a tank!

[MDaly]

I have no issue with the 640.  I have a 642 on order so I will get to try it out soon.  I am not certain why I ordered the 642 as I really do not notice the 640 after the first 5 minutes it is in my pocket.  

I have a selection of pocket holsters.  I really have not found one that leaps out as way better than any other.  I guess it is all a matter of personal preference.

I read P. O. Ackley on bullet selection years ago and have done a great deal of load testing.  I have found that heavy winter coats tend to have plugs cut from it that would fill the end of a hollow point bullet preventing any hydraulic action from occuring.  This would almost always prevent the bullet from expanding but it would also steal energy in the form of penetration.  A hard cast lead round nose tends to penetrate heavy clothing and move on through the test media.  Now, I am not saying that the round nose lead bullet is a wonderful round as a man stopper.  I am saying that under the conditions of encountering heavy winter clothing and being limited to a 38 SPl., I think they are a valid choice.

I think Michael Bane would agree that Hamilton Bowen is a wizard with a Smith & Wesson.  His work is worth the fee.

Mike

[MDaly]

Mr. Bane,

Ok, I resemble those remarks.

I do agree about staging appropriate firearms in the home.  Home invasion has become fairly popular in our area with the normal suspects being involved.  I have arranged a short barreled double 12 ga at the front door, an 870 under the bed along with a 1911 in the nightstand and a 12 ga double at the back door.    The room where I read, play the guitar, watch TV, etc has a handgun within reach of my chair always.   Each firearm has it's place to rest in a ready position which is not easily detected.

I carry every minute I am outside the house. 

I hope to never be put in the position to find the need to shoot anyone.  But, I refuse to allow my family or myself to be the victim of some piece of human feces.

Mike

[Walt Rauch]

A bit off subject - snubbies - but I recommend guns dedicated to be in fixed locations be those you don't use, use least or don't all that much care about.

My experience is I will neglect to immediately return the gun to its hiding place if I carried it or took it out for an "airing" at the range. (I know, I should put one in its place when I remove the one I take but ...good intentions pave the road to ....)

Also by doing this, you can set the gun up for the specific tactical applications such as with mounted light, laser, low penetration ammo or whatever.This practice allows you to justify that wonderful gun you paid too much for because you had to have it but turns out to be not what you anticipated.  Also an excuse to just buy other guns.

What did I stash? This will remain unanswered.

[Sponsor]

[DonWorsham]

These are all great suggestions for having a gun nearby. Not everyone will be able/want to have guns "around" the house due to their life styles (ie, young children). And I know no one is suggesting just having a gun laying around out in the open.

I struggled with what to do about home protection for sometime. Our kids are grown and gone but the grand-boys are coming around now. My solution came when Ohio finally enacted conceal carry. My Taurus M605 all steel w/concealed hammer rests in my pocket holster at all times. When I'm upstairs posting on these forum, or downstairs watching Shooting Gallery, my gun is with me.

I know not everyone will be able/want to carry this way. Everyone needs to find their own solution. Downrange TV is a perfect place to help you find that solution.

[Rastus]

I read P. O. Ackley on bullet selection years ago and have done a great deal of load testing.  I have found that heavy winter coats tend to have plugs cut from it that would fill the end of a hollow point bullet preventing any hydraulic action from occuring.  This would almost always prevent the bullet from expanding but it would also steal energy in the form of penetration.  A hard cast lead round nose tends to penetrate heavy clothing and move on through the test media.  Now, I am not saying that the round nose lead bullet is a wonderful round as a man stopper.  I am saying that under the conditions of encountering heavy winter clothing and being limited to a 38 SPl., I think they are a valid choice.

I remember reading about an FBI survey...something about a T shirt delaying expansion by 2" or so which surprised everyone.  What do you think about a Hydrashok bullet....it's got the little post sticking up from the hollow.....??  A lot of people like the speer gold dot...others are partial to the golden sabre...but I like the hydrshok...maybe because Federal makes 'em look pretty...I dunno.

[Majer]

I have a S&W 342-PD Airlite Ti that I carry from time to time, I have shot it with .38+P ammo and yes it stings some, But it stops hurting when you stop shooting it. I did replace the rubber "bootgrips" with a set of wood Secret Service Boot grips that are a better fit for my large hands. I think that having a proper fit in this area will go a long way to shooter comfort and control . I have found that the +P Federal Hydrashoks work best for me, as far as accuracy and reported performance. I don't think you will be disappointed with any S&W J frame that you decide to get, But to me the 340 series is with out a doubt one of the finest choices you can make.

[Mike McLaughlin]

Suggest consider S&W Model 60 with 3" barrel. Is almost as easy to conceal, and the longer barrel improves control and reduces recoil significantly. I can point shoot a 3" barrel fairly easily, but with a 1-1/2 or 2" barrel I have no good idea of where it points until I look at the gun.

Holster your gun against your body, and it won't flap in the wind. If you put a gun in a jacket pocket it will flap and flop around when you or the wind move rapidly. Also, if the jacket is not buttoned or zipped, when you pull the gun the jacket will tend to come up with the gun.

If you get a revolver off the shelf or from a private sale, make sure it says .357 Magnum on it someplace. Then you can always use 38s for practice. If it says 38, 357s just won't fit.

Just my humble opinions, your mileage may vary.

[Slamfire]

I love Snubbies!
A couple of thoughts on everyday carry- (Thanks to M25operator for suggesting this forum)

I have found an appendix carry position has certain advantages- doesn't interfere with normal pocket operations or bulk up the pocket and can be unobtrusive and accessible. try a rubber band around the grip (prevents moving laterally) and a shoelace made into a 4" long loop for vertical positioning- one end of the loop around a belt loop & the other around the barrel where it meets the frame and then tucked inside your pants. Works equally well while sitting. This is an old WWII resistance trick to carry a pistol and also be able to release the string and drop the gun down the trouser leg in the event of a search. Of course, people wore looser pants in those days.

I have carried a 442 and practiced with a 940 for years. The light gun for carry and heavy gun for practice is very sound advice. You have to do a lot of practice to hit with these little suckers, but it is fun when you learn how to connect.

For practice, slow way down and see if you can take up the slack and cock the internal hammer before releasing the shot. Do this for each cylinder to get a feel for these weapons. Practice fast presentation and deliberate shooting, quickness will develop. Besides, you only have 5 to count.

For extreme lighweight carry, consider magsafe or equivalent ammo- not much different from unloaded weight.

Thanks to you guys for suggesting the lasergrip addition- I am definitely going to try this.