Good article in Outdoor Life

[2HOW]

That the ar is the longest lived battle rifle in history is way wrong.  The ak goes back to just after ww2 in fact when the ak was kicking the m14s butt in nam did they come up with the 16. What do you expect from someone who would call the .40 short and weak. Better check your ballistics.

[DonWorsham]

That the ar is the longest lived battle rifle in history is way wrong. 

I think MB was refering to U.S. battle rifles.

[2HOW]

Perhaps he meant it that way ,but that is not the way it reads. Im shocked that he would put so much praise on the most unreliable rifle on the planet. not to mention a round that is not suited for battle. I shoot with guys that custom build these rifles, but if the wolf comes to the door ,they grab their AKs.

[Rastus]

Yes good article indeed.  I did get somewhat inflamed by some of the silly responses, especially a guy name of Joe who thought his superior ethics would save guns as opposed to the NRA....so I vented...look for Bubba's response on July 18.

I be Bubba.

 BUBBA DID NOT GET A POST, I GOT CENSORED OUT.  PROBABLY FOR SAYING ONE 3 LETTER WORD ONCE...XXX...

[Overload]

I have a question from the article I've never seen answered:
Gunsite Carbine Couse with an AR15.  Define Carbine, please?
I thought a carbine was a short barreled rife chambered in a pistol cartridge.

[Sponsor]

[ponyexpress]

Perhaps he meant it that way ,but that is not the way it reads. Im shocked that he would put so much praise on the most unreliable rifle on the planet. not to mention a round that is not suited for battle. I shoot with guys that custom build these rifles, but if the wolf comes to the door ,they grab their AKs.

Sigh... At the risk of starting a flame war, I guess I'm going to have to ask where you got your information that the AR is the most unreliable rifle on the planet? I don't really think the platform would have lasted this long if it was truly so bad.

In my personal experience, I took a carbine class where I put 800 rounds through an AR in two days and never had a single malfunction. In addition, all of the other class members were shooting AR's and they never had a problem either.

[Michael Bane]

Sigh...okay, AMERICAN battle rifle, althought, technically the AK-47 was being phased out for the AK-74 when the USSR collapsed in the mid-1970s. The generally accepted stat is that the AK-47 was an issue gun for the Russians for, like, 31 years. The M-16 platform, with relatively minor changes, has been in service for the U.S. for more than 40 years. I'm sure there's a country that still issues rusty AK-47s, maybe Bumfungistan or Umgahwastan. Or Canada.

There are about a million different matches at Camp Perry...I did not mean that the AR platform dominated ALL of them, for instance, I don't think the AR dominates the muzzle-loading segment of the competition, or the .45 pistol competition. As for the AR's inability to stabilize a bullet at distances further than the end of the barrel, I refer you all to my friends Dave Lauck and G. David Tubb. If you're still convinced the AR is inaccurate, I urge you to visit a 3-gun match and count the number of AKs competing...and I really LIKE AKs, so don't rag my ass on that! My experience has been that modern AR platform guns are amazingly reliable pieces of machinery under harsh conditions. I have personally run thousands of rounds through ARs with virtually no problems that couldn't be traced to me. I intentionally ran an S&W M&P through the last half of the GUNSITE class with no lube. Worked fine. Sorry. Conversely, I have shot kit-built ARs that could not get through a 30-round magazine without a bolt-over jam if Jesus and Elvis came down from the sky and was rooting for it. You pays your money and you takes your chances. Your results may vary. Objects in the rear view mirror may be closer than they appear...

Often we use the phrase "carbine" as interchangeable with "AR 15 platform," "high-tech rifles" an/or "black rifles." It's not correct. Most semiauto rifle/carbine classes are designed for the AR platform guns, although you're free to run what you brung. I have been outshot by guys wth lever action Winchester 30-30s.

Michael B

[m25operator]

Mainly to answer overloads question. Generally a " carbine" is a shorter lighter version of a standard rifle, bolt action, semi-auto, lever gun,pump, even single shot. Some exceptions have occurred, the M1 carbine is a rifle unto itself, it is not a scaled down M1 garand, shoots neither rifle or pistol caliber at the time, it was brand new and sort of breached the gap. The carbine  initially was developed for calvary and then later for close quarters, like tanks, jungles and trenches. In modern terms cars, and entry ways. It can be rifle or pistol calibers certainly. I have several carbines and they are definitely the most fun to carry, and in some instances shoot.

To MB: GREAT ARTICLE,  I'm glad it was published. The reviews and comments speak for themselves, the AR15, not just for breakfast anymore. I'm in the automotive business and we have a saying, no matter what vehicle you choose, you are always driving your tires. In this case, your always driving your caliber, it will perform to certain limits, learn them, experiment with them, then use them. However I prescribe to the old " main battle rifle " theory. A battle rifle should penetrate a standard helmet at 800 meters. Any thing less is not a battle rifle. I won't use the other term.  I own and use them all, I just won't put the 5.56 or the 7.62x29 in a catagory it does not belong. Valid yes, the ultimate no. Fun, oh hell yes!!!

[2HOW]

MB ,I didnt say the 5.56 was inaccurate,as a matter of fact its more accurate at distance than the 762x39 and goes alot farther. As for engaging the enemy at 800 meters? Where will that happen? Our troops are as we speak trading up to the AK because of reliability and penetration trouble. Check Military.com. Sure if you want to target shoot and "engage" at long range pick the 5.56, if you want to shoot thru hard targets and have it go bang everytime in the dessert and jungle ,pick the AK or a varient in 762x39. (amazingly reliable under harsh conditions).

[Bill Stryker]

"in fact when the ak was kicking the m14s butt in nam did they come up with the 16."

Take it from someone who was there in 1965 and 66. The AK did not kick the M14s butt in RVN. Just the opposite. But Secy McNamara in all his Air Force wisdom decreed that all the services should use the then AR15. As I have said in this forum before the AR15/M16 of the day was a POS. It jammed all the time. You could not keep it running because McNamara's Whiz Kids told the Ordnance Corps to stuff it when Ord said it needed a chrome chamber and bore for the jungle. Those same idiots said you did not need to clean the AR. Bad moves that cost lives. I used one in battle exactly once -- it was the Air Force FAC's rifle. It sucked big time.  In my area, the Delta, we liked BARs, M1s for the range, M14 if we could get them for the 20 rounds(only our fuel tanker driver who was from the 25th Inf Div had one though), Thompsons, Shotguns and my own choice the M2 Carbine -- perfect for an Infantry Officer Advisor. The AK is a fine assault rifle as it was designed to be. But you did not want to carry one because of the distinct report that said "enemy" loud and clear. It made you likely to draw friendly fire.