Author Topic: SIGHTS FOR AR 15  (Read 4922 times)

Ping

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Re: SIGHTS FOR AR 15
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2009, 09:15:39 PM »
I'd head to the store and find what works best for your friend and see if you can possibly find it on Ebay to save some money. I am not plugging for ebay but I have saved a bunch of money picking up items there. A co-worker just got a Eotech for a really great price a couple of months back.

dnittler

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Re: SIGHTS FOR AR 15
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2009, 10:35:36 PM »
*snip* I am looking in the Midway USA catalog and see several 3 - 10, 3-12, 4 - 12 (wide range of magnification and more than average eyes would need).

*snip*  most of these are large objectives *snip*

You mentioned the two major negatives
1. more magnification than is needed.
2. very large objective lense (heavy/long scope)

A 3-9 w/a 40mm objective lens dwarfs an AR-15 with a 14.5"-16" bbl. It looks very odd and adds a considerble amount of weight and makes the thing quite unwieldy when slung. I'm tolerating it for now, since it is an experiment in scope height and magnification (I had the scope gathering dust and just stuck it on their for kicks).

I'm not sure about the net light transmission, but at 9x a scope with a 40mm objective lens is not as bright and clear as a 3x with a much smaller objective lens (much lighter and shorter optic).

An inherent problem is that the scope is going to ride much higher on the AR than it is on a typical hunting rifle, which makes a slightly heavy scope seem incredibly heavy.

A previous poster recommended a Leupy 1.5 - 5 x 20mm that seems lilke it would be just the ticket for this dual purpose rifle.

An aimpoint with a 3x magnifier would work, as would the Leupy 1 - 3 x 14mm. The smaller Leupy is going to be a little lighter.If price is a problem, I want to say that Burris (or somebody) just came out with a less costly version of a 1-3 power tactical optic.

Just remember that these 1-3 and 1.5-5 variable scopes are not paralax free up close like an aimpoint will be. That means that if you move your head with a scope type optic your point of impact will diverge from your point of aim to a sometimes startling degree depending upon distance to target (Oddly enough this is usually less pronounced at 150 and more pronounced at say 50 yards due to the fact the most scope are preset to be paralax free at 150 yards)

No matter which option you choose you will have 1.5" of offset up close since the optic is that much higher than the bore. So remember to aim a bit higher inside of 30-40 yards.

Ounces add up quickly on these rifles. Find 16 of them and you just dropped a pound of of your kit.


MikeBjerum

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Re: SIGHTS FOR AR 15
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2009, 06:48:37 AM »
P220C,

You are correct about more than needed for those ranges on average, but I'm reading that this shooter is not average.  Sometimes you need to live with a few extra ounces to be able to see.  Also, the added objective size shouldn't be a problem due to the height of the AR handle already acting like high rings.

Poor vision = needs for magnification and light
If I appear taller than other men it is because I am standing on the shoulders of others.

dnittler

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Re: SIGHTS FOR AR 15
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2009, 12:22:09 PM »
P220C,

You are correct about more than needed for those ranges on average, but I'm reading that this shooter is not average.  Sometimes you need to live with a few extra ounces to be able to see.  Also, the added objective size shouldn't be a problem due to the height of the AR handle already acting like high rings.

Poor vision = needs for magnification and light

I agree with you that the shooter needs good glass.

I just find that a smaller, high quality, low magnification optic can transmit just as much light, and present a great sight picture to a shooter with slight vision problems.

Unless the shooter is nearly blind, he won't need 9x to shoot out to 150 yards, and a 3-9 won't focus in a home defense setting, so that really doesn't pass the test for this particular dual-purpose application.

If the optic is being mounted on a handle and not on a flat top upper, than the problem with large glass just got compounded, because the cheek weld is not as repeatable that high up. I wouldn't want anything higher than an ACOG mounted to a carry handle in a defensive carbine.

Remember the OP wants a dual purpose optic. This has to fill the hunting role, as well as be reasonable fast to acquire a sight picture and just beyond bad breath distance.


We need to help the OP to balance the needs of hunting with his defensive needs. if we lean too far one way or the other the optic becomes mission specific, and looses utility on the other end. A 3-9 x 40mm has no place on a home defense carbine. Not only is it sheavy and slow to pick up a sight picture, but paralax is crazy at close distance if you move your head. (I have moved groups 5" at 25 yards, and not really moved to any crazy degree).


Following is my ranking of up close sight picture acquisition speed. Obviously with enough training any of them can be utilized with good results. From 10 yards, with a slung rifle I can break a small clay target <1.5 sec. The advantage of the red dot is that you can do that over and over again. I'm running irons on my home defense carbine with a surefire duct taped to the foreend, and do not feel that i am at a substantial disadvantage. I have a 3-9x40 sitting in the safe that I would never consider using on my defensive rig. I haven't used the shot timer on the scope inside of 5-10 yards since you can't even get a sight picture at that distance: it won't focus.

Slowest- 3-9 x 40 crosshair
Slower - 3-9x40 illumitated dot
Moderate - Iron sights
Moderate/Fast - 3x or 4x ACOG
Fast - 1.5 - 5 x 20mm
Faster - 1-3 x 14mm
Fastest 1x Aimpoint (EOTech is just as fast, but the reticle on this one annoys me, and the battery life issue is a non-starter for me - the things gotta be on all the time, or it won't be on when you need it. )


All of that said, presently I am working towards setting up a long range AR, and that will probably have some heavy glass sitting on top. That's more of a toy for the 600 yards matches at my club, though and that rifle's "mission" doesn't involve being carried afield, or going to a carbine classes, or rolling around shooting from "urban prone" and what not. So long as a rifle has enough length to get the velocity up to reach out to 600 yards (18-20") I see nothing wrong with someone mounting a nightforce uber scope on that bad boy.

Capn Jack

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Re: SIGHTS FOR AR 15
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2009, 11:51:35 PM »
Sorry Guys,
The only things I read are:
1. Hunting
2. Blind as a Bat

Please stay at a supervised Target Range.
I'm in those woods and I've survived enough people shooting at me on purpose.
I don't need to shot by mistake.

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Re: SIGHTS FOR AR 15
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