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Which is the best?

M1 Garand
Mosin-Nagant M91
Lee-Enfield SMLE mkIII/IV
Mauser Gewehr 98
Arisaka rifle

Author Topic: Best WWII infantry battle rifle  (Read 39986 times)

fightingquaker13

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2009, 03:39:22 AM »
I don't recall reading about 500 meters in the revolution but  at 500 meters,  if it did happen, you were talking volley fire at closed packed infantry marching in formation. Walk'em in. The same with English longbow men shooting 200yds at Crecy (sic). Fire for effect and adjust. As far as practical average grunt rifles, we mostly shot 300 meter pop-ups in the army in the late '80s. I wish it had been five because the sixteens sights will handle it. Now with using optics, I hope we are. The limiting factor is ammo and range time, which are always limited. Now, if someone could convince the Navy and the Airforce that F-18s would be spiffy for both, we'd have a lot of dollars to work on marksmanship. (sigh)
fightingquaker13

Badgersmilk

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2009, 09:36:41 AM »
M25, the rest of what you said isnt worth a comment, but "We don't do armchair quarterbacks on this forum."...  Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, NOW THATS A JOKE!!!  Funniest thing I've seen "on this forum"!

tom to this point is almost the only one in any of the threads that has shared ANY usefull information!!!  The rest of it is boobs spouting off about how they can shoot an ant in the eye at 600 yards with an M1 (only chosen because sentimental value, or because their buddies all think its "the BEST", and want they need to conform")...  I wont waste my time commenting on this stuff anymore, if so many of you are that insecure that you need to attack people rather than share info...  You go girl!  Your just wasting everyones time.

Again tom, thanks for sharing some usefull info on here without having to try to show off doing it!

tombogan03884

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2009, 01:42:48 PM »
Tom, although we have never met, I walk the walk and talk the talk, Anyone is welcome to take me to task, Badger, you don't have the experience to comment on long range shooting, 600 and beyond takes skill, and I have trained and applied it, anyone who has not trained, has no idea, We don't do armchair quarterbacks on this forum.  If you want to hang around here, get more information, training, and experience, before making hipshot  comments. I own ak's, sks's, and less thought of rifles, but take them and try them to larger distances, and they are not bad, My M1A is better and more predictable, however, we need to know what the opposition can do, and if I'm behind the trigger, under 500 yards, LOOK Out with these rifles. Now to my true long range rifles, that is the difference between head shots and body shots. Both work, but head shots are final.

I'm not sure what you SEEM to be getting hot about  ???  I'm simply saying that because Americans up through the WWII era had far more experience with firearms than their European counterparts OUR armed forces, in a training cycle of the same length , could impart a higher level of training .

Never Knew that!  I would have guessed meters actually.

If I'm doing the math right, that'd translate the "20" mark on the sights of Mosin's as 1556 yards.  Phwewwwy!  LONG SHOT!

The SKS would be 778 yards, the AK would be 622 yards...  They shoot better than me!!!

The 20 on the Mauser would be meters wouldnt it?

THANKS FOR THE INFO!!!

The Mosin Nagants were ( prior to WWII) calibrated in Arshins, Since that time the Russians use metric like the rest of Europe.

Fullauto, in the 70's in the Marines we qualified with M-16's between 100 and 500 yards, Our platoon "High shooter" got 10 bullseyes out of 10 shots in the 500 yard prone string (we shot Known distance 3 position, sling supported.)

Timothy

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2009, 02:04:05 PM »
I don't recall reading about 500 meters in the revolution but  at 500 meters,  if it did happen, you were talking volley fire at closed packed infantry marching in formation. Walk'em in.

Off topic but worth the information..

from Military.com top ten snipers..

"The Battle of Saratoga was a turning point in the Revolutionary War. And one of the major turning points in the battle was when sniper Timothy Murphy shot and killed Gen. Simon Fraser of the British army on Oct. 7, 1777.

Murphy, a rifleman in Morgan's Kentucky Riflemen, hit Gen. Fraser at a distance of about 500 yards using one of the famous long-barreled Kentucky rifles."

fightingquaker13

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2009, 09:18:03 PM »
Off topic but worth the information..

from Military.com top ten snipers..

"The Battle of Saratoga was a turning point in the Revolutionary War. And one of the major turning points in the battle was when sniper Timothy Murphy shot and killed Gen. Simon Fraser of the British army on Oct. 7, 1777.

Murphy, a rifleman in Morgan's Kentucky Riflemen, hit Gen. Fraser at a distance of about 500 yards using one of the famous long-barreled Kentucky rifles."

 

I stand corrected.
Fightingquaker13

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #55 on: Today at 05:36:39 AM »

fullautovalmet76

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2009, 07:39:38 PM »
Fullauto, in the 70's in the Marines we qualified with M-16's between 100 and 500 yards, Our platoon "High shooter" got 10 bullseyes out of 10 shots in the 500 yard prone string (we shot Known distance 3 position, sling supported.)

That's what I have always heard about the Marines- they pride themselves on their marksmanship. I don't know if the rest will agree but I believe in our modern era there isn't the emphasis on marksmanship like it used to be. The Appleseed Project, which I referred to earlier, is trying to bring back that tradition. I want to go to one of their week long seminars as I understand they are really good.

tombogan03884

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2009, 07:54:54 PM »
That's what I have always heard about the Marines- they pride themselves on their marksmanship. I don't know if the rest will agree but I believe in our modern era there isn't the emphasis on marksmanship like it used to be. The Appleseed Project, which I referred to earlier, is trying to bring back that tradition. I want to go to one of their week long seminars as I understand they are really good.

I agree completely.

TAB

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #57 on: March 13, 2009, 12:32:12 AM »
I have never met a marine that left the marins a good shot, unless they went in as one.   All of those have come out much better shooters then when they went in as.   
I always break all the clay pigeons,  some times its even with lead.

DesertMarine

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #58 on: March 17, 2009, 10:38:18 PM »
Well TAB, here is one Marine that came out a better shot than when I joined.  My experience prior to joining was 22's at rabbits.  Qualified Expert with M1 Garand, went down to Marksman with M14 and back to Expert with M16.  Never got to know the M14 that well, hated it with full-auto.  Carried a Garand with Marine Infantry for three years, so know the rilfe.  Once you got your sight settings you could go to them and hit at 500 yds pretty easy.  As far as Maines in WWI making kills with 03's up to 1000 yds, been documented.  That is where Marines got the name of "Devil Dogs" from the Germans.

As far as training for military, not sure what they are doing now but have heard shooting having been cut back.  Saw some National Guard here qualifing with M16.  Range was 50 yds with reduced targets. 

DesertMarine

tombogan03884

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Re: Best WWII infantry battle rifle
« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2009, 10:50:33 PM »
DM, That's TAB, he's a dipsh!t on many subjects. He's from Ca. what can you expect.
As to NG Marksmanship training, after they get their basic training, which I can not speak of ( I didn't have to going having already been to PI) it sucked in the 90's. I had several Sgt's with 18+ years who could not hit the paper at 25 yards.
I hope they get better training now.

 

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