Gun Quality?

[MikeBjerum]

I don't want this to spiral down into a company blasting thread, but I am seeing things that make me ask -

Are we seeing more problems with firearms manufacturing and quaility of design and manufacture?

I can remember all the way back into the 60's when there were recalls and issues (the Ruger three screw being the most prominent), but I seem to be "aware" of more and more all the time in the last few years.  My bigger question is are we seeing the compounding on rapid turn around in R&D to roll out, company aquisition, cost containment, passing on of the reins to a new generation, a combination of all, or something I missed ... Or, am I totally off base in my views?

[Hazcat]

I don't want this to spiral down into a company blasting thread, but I am seeing things that make me ask -

Are we seeing more problems with firearms manufacturing and quaility of design and manufacture?

I can remember all the way back into the 60's when there were recalls and issues (the Ruger three screw being the most prominent), but I seem to be "aware" of more and more all the time in the last few years.  My bigger question is are we seeing the compounding on rapid turn around in R&D to roll out, company aquisition, cost containment, passing on of the reins to a new generation, a combination of all, or something I missed ... Or, am I totally off base in my views?

There is nothing wrong with the Ruger 3 screw.  It is PURRfect as it is.   

[MikeBjerum]

There is nothing wrong with the Ruger 3 screw.  It is PURRfect as it is.   

My only 3 screw has been updated (done before I aquired it), but basic firearm safety dictated there was nothing wrong with the design.  Lawyers I believe were the bigger issue in this one ... and I'm sure several others    I have an American Western Arms with a hammer spur.  Could be worse than the 3 screw design, but if you know how to handle a revolver properly it is a non-issue.

[tombogan03884]

I don't want this to spiral down into a company blasting thread, but I am seeing things that make me ask -

Are we seeing more problems with firearms manufacturing and quaility of design and manufacture?

I can remember all the way back into the 60's when there were recalls and issues (the Ruger three screw being the most prominent), but I seem to be "aware" of more and more all the time in the last few years.  My bigger question is are we seeing the compounding on rapid turn around in R&D to roll out, company aquisition, cost containment, passing on of the reins to a new generation, a combination of all, or something I missed ... Or, am I totally off base in my views?

I think the part I high lighted is part of the answer, another part is "mass production technology". In modern gun factories (most factories in fact) the only "gun maker" is the company, the machine operators are button pushers to whom "parts is parts", they know how to operate their machine and could really care less what the parts go to, they have a list of dimensions to check on 1 part in 10 with tolerances of +/- .005 to +/- .01 , assemblers just put parts together and have a list of functions to check on 1 of 10 assemblies, and Quality control is focused on process, checking 1 part per 100. Through this whole process the companies emphasis is on out put, and scrap reduction , I know of many instances when operators knowingly let bad parts go because to much scrap would cost them their job.This allows crap to occasionally get through.
It seems that the main source of recalls lately though has been spurred by lawyers trying to protect the companies from asinine, unwarranted lawsuits

[ericire12]

I think Tom is right about lawyers being behind the last seveal recalls.

I also think that we may see this be more of a problem over the next year or so as the industry tries to play catch up. In their haste to fill demand by getting the depleted supply levels back to where they need to be, we may see the defects per million ratio increase. It may be as a result of a deliberate decision to let quality control suffer in order to get product to market or perhaps it will be because of all the new hires that they will have to rush through training and put into place in order to have the labor force needed to turn out product. Either way, I think that it will be inevitable that quality will suffer to some extent as they try to step on the accelerator and flood the market with more product.

[Sponsor]

[Ping]

I know of many instances when operators knowingly let bad parts go because to much scrap would cost them their job.This allows crap to occasionally get through.


I would imagine this works in the automotive industry, I have seen it personally, but I would hope there is more care and concern in manufacturing a firearm than that.

Mass production has its drawbacks but most firearm makers are trying to have the new, big or best firearm on the market.

In 1990, I had the opportunity to tour the Beretta Firearms Factory in Brescia, Italy. Every worker you spoke to was very knowledgable about what part they were making and where it went on the firearm. They were incredibly proud of their products and their hearts went into their craft.

I would imagine that appeal to their product is the same at most other firearm factories.

[Badgersmilk]

Surely someone will poop themselves a little and jump to opose this, but I bought a Remington 870 last year.  Took it back the next day after taking it apart for cleaning and inspecting because 1. the extractor was cracked in three places.  2. Molding process or something went wrong when they made the locking lug.  Only 3/4's of it was there!  3. After running over 40 patches through the barrel trying to get out all the dirt I found a big pit in it where they had attached the top rail.

The shop owner offered to "fix all this at no charge", I refused because it's supposed to be a new gun.  He and I went through FIVE other guns inspecting them and finding much the same stuff wrong while he told me people have been having problems with Remington rifles too.  I ended up getting a Super Nova from him (SUPER NICE GUN!) and buying an 870 from another store that had old stock.  The 870 I finally took home had been in the stores back room over a year.  Same model and everything as before, not a single problem. 

Just my experience.

[Ping]

That sucks to hear about the Remington. Sold my Benelli Super Nova to get a Remington 870. Benelli's are super sweet and only got rid of it cause I ordered a rifled barrel for it off ebay and got ripped off.    Was desperate for a deer gun. Otherwise I would have kept it.

[fightingquaker13]

Thats dissapointing news about the 870. They were my fall back if I can't find a carbine in my price range. They always had the reputation of being well made and unstoppable. I hope it was just a bad batch and not indicative of larger QC issues.fightingquaker13
PS You have now officially kicked TAB's ass on the avatar front

[ericire12]

PS You have now officially kicked TAB's ass on the avatar front

Yes, I think equating BadgersMilk with TAB is a very accurate comparison..... As far as the avatar is concerned, I still fell the need to.........