Gun Quality?

[Timothy]

Thats dissapointing news about the 870. They were my fall back if I can't find a carbine in my price range. They always had the reputation of being well made and unstoppable. I hope it was just a bad batch and not indicative of larger QC issues.fightingquaker13

I have a 870 Wingmaster, circa 1976.  It is a wonderfull shotgun, well made, great lumber and still shoots and looks brandy new!  My daughter has a newer youth model and the quality is GONE.....not the same....

Tom hit on something that I agree with (we have similar backgrounds).  Machine operators are not the true craftsman that the manufacturing base had even thirty years ago.  Button pushers are the norm these days because employers can have one highly skilled journeyman on the shift and several "operators" to make the parts.  The journeyman sets up the process and the operator runs the job.  Things will go wrong and the skilled craftsman can't measure everything...

We have four senior guys getting ready to retire in the next five years and there is NO WAY to replace the knowledge and experience that these men have gained over the last forty years.  Precision parts are a product of the skills and knowledge of the man making them and the human function cannot be easily or cheaply replaced...

[Ping]

"Machine operators are not the true craftsman that the manufacturing base had even thirty years ago. "

Cannot agree with you more on this. The question is, "Can it be changed?". 

[TAB]

"Machine operators are not the true craftsman that the manufacturing base had even thirty years ago. "

Cannot agree with you more on this. The question is, "Can it be changed?". 

not really.   CNC machining has improved machining as a whole... what has gone away is QC for the most part.   No longer are people, looking and touching every part these days( generally speaking)  I've seen many operations where there are 5-6 machines, one operator that does nothing but load stock into a machine and removes bins/ boxs for shipping.  Even QC is handled by machine.

[tt11758]

Yes, I think equating BadgersMilk with TAB is a very accurate comparison..... As far as the avatar is concerned, I still fell the need to......... 

Good thing you claryfied that comparison.   LOL

[fightingquaker13]

"Machine operators are not the true craftsman that the manufacturing base had even thirty years ago. "

Cannot agree with you more on this. The question is, "Can it be changed?". 

The day after it becomes profitable. Its always about the bottom line. If you can sell 10% very good, to get the word of mouth going, then 60% pretty good to good enough, these folks will talk it up as they want to convince themselves they've got something great. The remaing 30% crap isn't worth fixing as doing so would require production changes that would cost more than the returns. Remember the Ford Pinto? Ford excecs were caught on tape saying that it was cheaper to settle the lawsuits than to change design on the gas tank. Welcome to corporate America. Its why I really prefer to do business wit smaller companies like bond when I can. they still take quality control seriousely.
fightingquaker13

[Sponsor]

[Hazcat]

Look at a Mossberg instead of the Remmy.

[Ping]

I certainly agree about quality control. It lacks everywhere in the manufacturing industry.

"Ford Pinto?" Ford was the first company to put a price on a human life. After all the crashes rupturing the gas tanks and injuring people I believe Ford settled on $5,000 a person. This quote to me came second hand from a old Criminology professor of mine.

I will have to look at the Mossberg.

[Timothy]

Cannot agree with you more on this. The question is, "Can it be changed?". 

As a society, we need to reverse the ideology that working with your hands is a bad thing.  Going through a trade school should be encouraged.  Machinists, skilled tradesman, tool and die makers, millwrights and the like are being left out in the cold because of the mass exodus of manufacturing being sent overseas.

You want to stimulate the economy?  KEEP the F#@king work in this country!  Teach people a trade, retrain people that are out of work, extend their benefits, give them hope, give them training, give them some inspiration and show the true power of what this country is capable of producing.....!

I call it a WORK ETHIC, it was a gift I received from my parents that I've passed on to my daughter.....Rant over, for now...

[twyacht]

Across many industries, overall quality controls, contracts going to the "lowest" bidder, and automation has all worked into the end product.

I guess I got lucky when I bought my Rem. 870 Early Summer 08. I have examined that thing and its a solid one.

My S&W Walther PPK/S is another on the "recall" boat, but unless you get to the S&W Performance Center, where the REAL hands of craftsman work their magic, the "main production line" is CNC.

Most have gone that route, its the controls at the end of the line that ultimately matter most before it gets to little ol' me.

We the consumer, can play a role in improving overall quality.

As a society, we need to reverse the ideology that working with your hands is a bad thing.  Going through a trade school should be encouraged.  Machinists, skilled tradesman, tool and die makers, millwrights and the like are being left out in the cold because of the mass exodus of manufacturing being sent overseas.

You want to stimulate the economy?  KEEP the F#@king work in this country!  Teach people a trade, retrain people that are out of work, extend their benefits, give them hope, give them training, give them some inspiration and show the true power of what this country is capable of producing.....!

I call it a WORK ETHIC, it was a gift I received from my parents that I've passed on to my daughter.....Rant over, for now...

Bullseye! 

My grandfather told me of teaching gunsmithing in school. Imagine that! Sapulpa, OK.  Sounds better than Auto Shop, but that was handy too. I don't think they even have auto shop anymore.

[TAB]

There are very few good trade schools left.  The only one here worth a damn in run by the sheet metal union.  

The unions for the most part are dead.  many of them priced them selfs out of the market.  While technically I am a union contractor, I do not play by union rules.  when trade unions went from where titles ment something to, where all it ment was you got more money... things went down hill fast.