Rassmussen -- 18% of Texans want to sucede

[TAB]

M25, you forget, states are forbiden from making treatiess with other countrys.  So by the US cons, the only people you could make them with is federal goverment. 

[tombogan03884]

M25, you forget, states are forbiden from making treatiess with other countrys.  So by the US cons, the only people you could make them with is federal goverment. 

Did you take a severe blow to the head TAB ? What does any of this have to do with making treaties ? It's no different than Mack selling to the Soviets the factory that built the trucks and APC's they used to invade Afghanistan. American companies make perfectly legal sales to other countries every day. So often in fact that there is a name for it.
It's called "Foreign Trade" you may have heard of it back before the paint fumes got to you.

[TAB]

he was saying that they could still ghet things  I was just pointing out that the fed control international trade. 

Try buying something from cuba, or sending a computer of afgahanistan.

[twyacht]

I think Texas and Montana are just taking the lead.


"It is customary for republican governments to be bound by constitutions, and this is grand idea. The question does arise, however, about what recourse the citizen has when the government disregards its own constitution, as is the case with our own Tenth Amendment. What do you do if your government does not obey its own laws? Our Declaration declaims that when governments do not observe the God-given rights of man, it is not only the right but the duty of the people to alter or abolish them. The Declaration of Independence may not be the supreme law of the land - which is the Constitution - but it frames our philosophy of government and serves as a guide for those who respect our traditions. More people should."
Col. Jeff Cooper

Note this from the Sixteenth American Jurisprudence, Second Edition, Section 177:

"The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having formed in nature of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void and ineffective for any purpose, since unconstitutionality dates from the time of its enactment and not merely from the date of decision so branding it. An unconstitutional law in legal contemplation is as inoperative as if it had never been passed. Such a statute leaves the question that it purports to settle just as it would be had the statute not been enacted."

"Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principles follow that it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection and justifies no acts performed under it."

"No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it."

"No State shall convert a liberty into a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor."
Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 US 105

"If the State converts a right (liberty) into a privilege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right (liberty) with impunity."
Shuttleworth v. City of Birmingham Alabama, 373 US 262


"An unconstitutional act is not law; it confers no rights; it imposes no duties; affords no protection; it creates no office; it is in legal contemplation as though it had never been passed."
Norton v. Shelby County, 118 US 425

The citizenry has already allowed these precedents, to be rendered impotent.,,,,,,Too Bad. Maybe TX is just trying to use established rulings to hold the Feds to account.

[Rastus]

......
Not That there is anything wrong with that,.........
........

You do mean kicking ass, right!     [please note that emoticon is not winking]

Texas grows a lot of food, a whole lot of food and could get by without imports.  They have tremendous agricultural areas, they have steel plants that manufacture pipe, beams, etc...and they are quite self-sufficient with electricity, unlike California.

Cessation of their port activities alone would be extremely disruptive to the rest of the nation and a loss of Texas ports a long time to recover from.

If they cut off the oil and gas to the rest of the US, last year's $140 bbl would be a fond memory....but then they don't have to even do that, just curtail refining capacity.  You'd have to actually build new refining somewhere else in the US...and nobody has accomplished that since I was a child.

Texas, as a free state, would be able to negotiate with anyone, they have deep ports and could immediately begin exporting what the rest of the US is using now....we need them more than they need us, by so much I can't believe the thoughtless statements saying Texas would be in a bind to seccede.  An exporter nation that can feed itself and provide it's own fuel and food....a true economic powerhouse.

No, the loss would be ours.  If Texas was joined by Louisiana and Oklahoma, Sarah Palin's oil would be very popular all of a sudden.  In the War Between The States, the north had manufacturing, etc....i.e., the big stick.  Now what is produced in quantity....Wall Street, Washington D.C. blowhards, poets and politicians...things that really make a difference and put food in the mouth, clothing on the back and a roof over the head. 

Naw, we need Texas a whole lot more than they need us...if someone thinks that we don't need them then they aren't thinking.  If Texas really wanted to seccede, BHO and the boys would have every carrier in the inventory sittin' off Galveston pronto, he'd swell all the military bases around with anybody he could find off the street...think we saw a massive deployment to Kuwait...he'd have troops holding hands across, up and down Texas if the talk of leaving was serious.

EDIT:  Now, the last paragraph was if Texas went it alone and the status quo is as it is now.  If it gets a little worse and Texas really does kick up...BHO wouldn't be able to focus on Texas alone.  And the issue would not be a polarizing nation vs. state or  state vs. state issue, as it was in the War Between The States...it would be more like The War Between The State's misnomer name that it is called today and, I suspect, the military would begin to balk.

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

You do mean kicking ass, right!     [please note that emoticon is not winking]

Texas grows a lot of food, a whole lot of food and could get by without imports.  They have tremendous agricultural areas, they have steel plants that manufacture pipe, beams, etc...and they are quite self-sufficient with electricity, unlike California.

Cessation of their port activities alone would be extremely disruptive to the rest of the nation and a loss of Texas ports a long time to recover from.

If they cut off the oil and gas to the rest of the US, last year's $140 bbl would be a fond memory....but then they don't have to even do that, just curtail refining capacity.  You'd have to actually build new refining somewhere else in the US...and nobody has accomplished that since I was a child.

Texas, as a free state, would be able to negotiate with anyone, they have deep ports and could immediately begin exporting what the rest of the US is using now....we need them more than they need us, by so much I can't believe the thoughtless statements saying Texas would be in a bind to seccede.  An exporter nation that can feed itself and provide it's own fuel and food....a true economic powerhouse.

No, the loss would be ours.  If Texas was joined by Louisiana and Oklahoma, Sarah Palin's oil would be very popular all of a sudden.  In the War Between The States, the north had manufacturing, etc....i.e., the big stick.  Now what is produced in quantity....Wall Street, Washington D.C. blowhards, poets and politicians...things that really make a difference and put food in the mouth, clothing on the back and a roof over the head. 

Naw, we need Texas a whole lot more than they need us...if you think that we need them you aren't thinking.  If Texas really wanted to seccede, BHO and the boys would have every carrier in the inventory sittin' off Galveston pronto, he'd swell all the military bases around with anybody he could find off the street...think we saw a massive deployment to Kuwait...he'd have troops holding hands across, up and down Texas if the talk of leaving was serious.

Spot on Rastus! No one takes it seriously, least of all Rick Perry. If he did, I'd be right up there with coroner and quoting Andrew Jackson when he threatened to hang Calhoun. It is, however instructive, to occasionally remind our congress critters and pres, of what ever party, that there are limits. If it can be done in the spirit of fun, with a bit of a barb thrown in that gets the point across so much the better.
FQ13

[THE CORONER]

You do mean kicking ass, right!     [please note that emoticon is not winking]

Texas grows a lot of food, a whole lot of food and could get by without imports.  They have tremendous agricultural areas, they have steel plants that manufacture pipe, beams, etc...and they are quite self-sufficient with electricity, unlike California.

Cessation of their port activities alone would be extremely disruptive to the rest of the nation and a loss of Texas ports a long time to recover from.

If they cut off the oil and gas to the rest of the US, last year's $140 bbl would be a fond memory....but then they don't have to even do that, just curtail refining capacity.  You'd have to actually build new refining somewhere else in the US...and nobody has accomplished that since I was a child.

Texas, as a free state, would be able to negotiate with anyone, they have deep ports and could immediately begin exporting what the rest of the US is using now....we need them more than they need us, by so much I can't believe the thoughtless statements saying Texas would be in a bind to seccede.  An exporter nation that can feed itself and provide it's own fuel and food....a true economic powerhouse.

No, the loss would be ours.  If Texas was joined by Louisiana and Oklahoma, Sarah Palin's oil would be very popular all of a sudden.  In the War Between The States, the north had manufacturing, etc....i.e., the big stick.  Now what is produced in quantity....Wall Street, Washington D.C. blowhards, poets and politicians...things that really make a difference and put food in the mouth, clothing on the back and a roof over the head. 

Naw, we need Texas a whole lot more than they need us...if you think that we need them you aren't thinking.  If Texas really wanted to seccede, BHO and the boys would have every carrier in the inventory sittin' off Galveston pronto, he'd swell all the military bases around with anybody he could find off the street...think we saw a massive deployment to Kuwait...he'd have troops holding hands across, up and down Texas if the talk of leaving was serious.

Here we go stereotyping people in the north again.  I knew it was coming.  Us blowhards here in the north are also dealing with the same problems as Texas, Florida, the Carolinas, etc.... You think your rights are being infringed down there?  Try living in Ohio where this state is damn near divided in half polictically speaking.  Talk about imposition.  We have plenty!  But we were also previous to Oct. 08' a stong state both agricultural, and industrial.  Two of the largest salt mines under the great lakes.  Coal mines, steel mills, endless manufacturing industries, limestone quarries, tourism, alternative energy plants, etc...  I think other than maning an army, and being without a ocean port, Ohio could be self sufficient as well.  But we are a state divided, as we are a nation divided. 

Some of you southern boys seem to think that all of us folks up here have our noses in the air and couldn't give a damn what you people think of us.  Well, we don't have our noses snubbed against you.  We even envy you at times.  The idea of being truely free isn't in the law of the land.  It's in the hearts of the men who make them laws.  When they don't have the heart for it anymore, or have never had it; it's time for them to be removed from their offices.  Believe me, I hear you.  We have the same bitches and moans as you do.  We have representatives in Washington that are both conservative and liberal.  We have corruption with our elected officials from the Feds, down to our local governments.  Law enforcement scumbags as well.  Unethical lawyers and judges.  Parents who let their kids run like wild packs of dogs terrorizing, and vandalizing their neighborhoods.  We have street gangs, and hate groups.  We have drugs and restrictive gun laws.  We are more alike than we are different.  The whole North/South thing is well, .... like beating up you sister.  You know you can do it, but should you?  I sometimes feel like I'm being judged, or my character is being questioned; just because of living where I do.  My feelings about recent issues aren't that different, or different at all to yours? 

I just don't think secession is the answer.  I think a clear message needs to be sent to each and every politician from coast to coast, and border to border.  I've been a truck driver for over 14 years now.  I've seen all kinds.  Rich/poor, gluttoness/starving, friendly/unfriendly, patriot/traitor, conservative/liberal, heroes/criminals, etc....  I try to treat people the way I would like to be treated.  With respect, honor, and dignity.  I believe in fairplay, when the world around me isn't fair.  My hands are to help.  My heart to care.  And my head to understand.  We live in a dangerous and violent world.  We tend to mind our own business, when we should have spoke up, and said "NO MORE".  But we didn't, and we still don't.  Why?  Because, not everyone feels as passionate about a particular issue as someone else.  Or the issue doesn't necessarily affect them personally.  Life can be difficult.  As it is for us now.  But we need to stand together.  Like minded individuals across the nation.  Not just Texas, or other states.  Because according the percentages, I wouldn't have any better chance at 50% here in Ohio, then you would at 16% in Texas of seceding, if it was to happen today.  People just aren't willing to stick their necks out.  You know what i mean?  They're caught up in their own personal problems.  Anyways, I just don't want you southern boys to think you've cornered the market on being angry with our government.  Nor to I want you to stereotype me because of where my family lives.  God bless.

[Rastus]

Here we go stereotyping people in the north again.  ......  People just aren't willing to stick their necks out.  You know what i mean?  They're caught up in their own personal problems.  Anyways, I just don't want you southern boys to think you've cornered the market on being angry with our government.  Nor to I want you to stereotype me because of where my family lives.  God bless.

I knew I should have expanded the description, but I had to get to something.  I travel across the country and know there are great people everywhere, I should have expanded that thought which was there has been an erosion of economic production in those areas, which accompanies the unemployment we're seeing...in it's place we do see the banker's stuffing their pockets, the politicians making hay, and then the politician's faithful wealthy liberal rabble characterized as a poet.

Sorry to get you stirred up, that was my fault and not my intention.  You seized upon and expanded to the thoughts I left out.  My feelings, and I think yours are (as explained in another post) that this Napolitano-like fascist insanity is not polarizing states, it is polarizing people.  Yes, we are alike. 

The liberals revel in diversity...but focus on division to create the victim which enables their empowerment.  They are, as should now be apparent to everyone, have either begun to believe their own BS or have been replaced by a generation that has believed the BS they were fed growing up.

[tombogan03884]

Rastus is right about the shift in industry, especially over the last 40 years or so, away from the northern states and into the WARMER states,partly this has been a result of rising energy costs, partly because due to their prior LACK of industry southern states offered business better deals and cheaper labor.
How ever as Coroner pointed out, this shift is irrelevant because the division in America is not based on regional concerns as it was in 1860 but is more of an Urban versus rural matter, take my area for example, only the southeastern third of the state is run by dems, but that area contains about 2/3 of the population. Ma is the same way, the eastern third of the state is a socialist hellhole that has imposed it's regime on the rest of state due to numbers and money, nearly all states can show a similar divide, in Maine the state is run by Augusta, Bangor, Portland and Lewiston, the remainder of the state has no effective representation in national affairs, (both Me. (R) Senators voted FOR the stimulus bill).
The hard reality is that half the population are sheep who will follow who ever yells the loudest or tells them what they want to hear. Of the remaining half 1/4 are intelligent, Patriotic, hard working people who want America to remain America, (That would be us gun clinging, right wing, religious nut, Veteran, terrorist extremists who can read and think) the other 1/4 are composed of those who are consciously trying to undermine the traditions America was founded on and a larger percentage who just don't know anything but want to be "cool" like the social elitists they admire. This "leftist" 1/4 of the population is, as in all other countries primarily drawn from the so called "intellectuals" these are people who's parents were financially secure (often inherited rather than earned) attended  Prep schools and Ivy league collages where their lack of real world experience was exploited by Marxist oriented professors who also had no real world experience, but enjoy funding from anti American activists like George Soros through "front" organizations such as ACORN and the Joyce Foundation. These brain washed minions then infiltrate Politics, and the media to propagandize the masses into thinking they have all the answers, in spite of the fact that their "answers" have a consistent record of failure world wide. Look at Cuba as an example, Batista was cutting sugar cane at 10 years old, joined the Army and worked his way up to Dictator, He may not have been an ideal ruler, but under his administration Cuba had the highest standard of living in the Caribbean, It was the  child of wealth Castro, and other privileged colledge socialists who reduced Cuba to it's current state of poverty where it's largest export is it's desperate population. 
This well financed social elite is our true enemy, the ones we must defeat are those who who consider themselves "citizens of the world".
In order to due this we must have money and a voice, if they bribe a politician, we need to be able to bribe (or blackmail) 2, if they run a propaganda piece in the media such as the recent anti CCW show on 20/20 we need to run a dozen debunking and ridiculing it, when they lie like saying that 90% of Mexico's guns come from America we must expose it.
Do not be deluded into thinking that the alternative is secession and a civil war, it's not, the alternative would be 50 civil wars within the states like what occurred in Kansas in the 1860's

[THE CORONER]

Tom,

Are you some kind of genius or something?  You my friend, have just hit the nail on the head!  And you sir, are correct.  However, I want this to be known as well.  Not all ivy league, political wannabe, ass injected silverspooners, and liberal leftist (I'm gonna puke) are from the north.  I'm sure you'll find that they come from the south, east, and west also.  As you said, this isn't 1860 anymore.
Well wrote, well done.  I knew there was a reason I enjoy your posts.  Hey, you got any ideas on how to fund building a wall along our southern border?  LOL!!!