When machinest, were machinest... not computer programers

[tombogan03884]

Ear and eye protection? This is when men were men, not subject to liability lawyers that would have a field day with the practices of days gone by. And no workmens Comp or disability ins. , you lose an eye, or a hand, oh well sucks to be you, if you can't do your job your fired. Colt was however one of, if not the first, to have on site medical care for his workers. he took very good care of them since he picked only the best, importing some from as far away as Germany, but the company ran their lives out side work as well as in work.

it has to be perfected by a set up man on the machine who has to have the same knowledge  as the old timers, plus speed and feed rates that were never taken into account on hand fed machinery.

I think that's the point Tom. The generation that gave us the Industrial Revolution had no C&C stuff, they fabricated, calculated, put the micrometer on it, and flat out made it.  No college grad ever shirked away from getting their hands dirty back than if they had a plan or idea at the manufacturing level. They do NOW, but not than.  It's not your field so I understand that you don't realize how important proper cutting speeds and feed rates are to precision and accuracy, NO one will achieve that with hand operated machinery, it is not possible, and I started out judging my feed rate by the color, size and shape of the chip.

As an example, why are there still so many "old" pieces of equip. in local machine shops? Because they were built like Rugers and Tanks, you will notice however that unlike in "Home shops" they are seldom if ever used for production work.

Cause the new stuff is crap...Like I said, it's not your field. The number one problem I have encountered in CNC machining is Companies that spend 10's of thousands of dollars on a piece of equipment and then  try to "save" money by either not doing Maintenance until something breaks, or having it done by some old fart who is not competent but went to school with the manager. The number 2 problem I've seen is using shit tooling because the bean counters could get them cheap, then used 3 times as many because they were not the right tools for the material. Number 3 is trying to push a machine beyond it's capabilities, you will notice that in those photo's they did not try to do the work on shop size Bridgeports, the machines were LARGE.

Go back to GM, Chrysler, or Ford during WWII. the pics match to a "T". Of course, same era, same technology. It would be amazing if they did NOT match.

I saw a program on the History Channel about rebuilding WWII aircraft. It was an English group that would buy up trashed aircraft and rebuild them using original specs. They took a ME109 crankshaft to a Diamler Benz (the original manufacturer) factory in Germany to get it rebuilt using the well worn original crankshaft, and the spec sheet (from 1943), as templates for the new crankshaft.

The DB reps said they were unable to duplicate the original with the machinery they had available. The computer controled engineering and manufacturing available in the 21st century was unable to duplicate the precision of the hand operated manufacturing of the mid 20th century. I found that to be the most interesting part of the program.

He didn't want the job. There is nothing that can be done on a manual machine that can not be duplicated on a CNC, IF you have a competent Machinist. I've worked with guys trained in Germany and Holland and they were some of the laziest SOBs I ever worked with, one quit Sig because they would not let him sit on his a$$ all night, he was already so fat he could not get between the rails of the pallet changer.

[PegLeg45]

Cause the new stuff is crap...Like I said, it's not your field. The number one problem I have encountered in CNC machining is Companies that spend 10's of thousands of dollars on a piece of equipment and then  try to "save" money by either not doing Maintenance until something breaks, or having it done by some old fart who is not competent but went to school with the manager. The number 2 problem I've seen is using shit tooling because the bean counters could get them cheap, then used 3 times as many because they were not the right tools for the material. Number 3 is trying to push a machine beyond it's capabilities, you will notice that in those photo's they did not try to do the work on shop size Bridgeports, the machines were LARGE.

+1 on everything else, but especially that.
I saw that first hand in the machine shop at my old plant. They bought a $200,000 machine and ran it with $6.00 cutters and then scratched their pointy little heads as to why we were buying twelve dozen cutters a month for one machining operation cycle.

[tombogan03884]

+1 on everything else, but especially that.
I saw that first hand in the machine shop at my old plant. They bought a $200,000 machine and ran it with $6.00 cutters and then scratched their pointy little heads as to why we were buying twelve dozen cutters a month for one machining operation cycle.

Exactly, a"good" endmill, Not the best, but a good quality tool can cost $ 15 for an 1/8th inch diameter tool . There are hobbiests who restore the old machines and use them, but not for production.

[TAB]

Exactly, a"good" endmill, Not the best, but a good quality tool can cost $ 15 for an 1/8th inch diameter tool . There are hobbiests who restore the old machines and use them, but not for production.

$15?

I send 3 times that for a good 1/8" router bit.  those still only last me about 3 days of actual use.  less if its high silca wood or plastic.

[tombogan03884]

$15?

I send 3 times that for a good 1/8" router bit.  those still only last me about 3 days of actual use.  less if its high silca wood or plastic.

Before I got laid off we were getting 1/8 inch Ball mills for $15/ Ea, but it was also volume sale, between 4 machines we were using 8 a day (2 tools, rougher, and finish, 18 hours ) Harbor freight offers a decent coated 1/2 inch endmill (TIn 2 end) at$40 EACH.
Often it is the coating that drives the price up.
If you are routing plastic you know what I mean about speeds, unless it's glass filled you can often feed fast, but if your spindle speed goes to high you wind up melting the material, plastic is the worst to machine.

[Sponsor]

[TAB]

I like whiteside 3 fulte spirals for my flush cut bits.  for the 30-40 bucks nothing out there beats them.  then again the hardest thing they see is teak( which do to its high silica content, just destorys tools.





PS  I miss my 3 axis CNC router...

[tombogan03884]

I like whiteside 3 fulte spirals for my flush cut bits.  for the 30-40 bucks nothing out there beats them.  then again the hardest thing they see is teak( which do to its high silica content, just destorys tools.





PS  I miss my 3 axis CNC router...

Teak ? I wish you would post pics of some of your work, Sounds very impressive.

 Look on the bright side, if you are using a manual machine and start getting into trouble, all you have to do is quit cranking the handle  with a CNC, by the time you see the problem you've lost either the tool, the piece, or both.

[deepwater]

They had to buy American for the best, because most milling and machining technology developed from Colts factory. That was why the milling machine Co. was located in Bridgeport Conn. So it was close enough to service Colt.

I worked on a ship that ran COLT Pielstick engines. french design but built by Colt. not another engine in the world like thos two.. they were the first two off the test bed and in fact the ship was used as a test bed not only for the engines but for automation as well. first fully automated engine room in the states. they learned from their mistakes and made other engines better, but being original there are parts that cannot be bought. we had a milling machine and lathe onboard to keep her going.

also the engines in the post are a lot like the engine on the ship I'm on now. Man B&W. BIG!!!

[Timothy]

"The number one problem I have encountered in CNC machining is Companies that spend 10's of thousands of dollars on a piece of equipment and then  try to "save" money by either not doing Maintenance until something breaks, or having it done by some old fart who is not competent but went to school with the manager. The number 2 problem I've seen is using shit tooling because the bean counters could get them cheap, then used 3 times as many because they were not the right tools for the material. Number 3 is trying to push a machine beyond it's capabilities, you will notice that in those photo's they did not try to do the work on shop size Bridgeports, the machines were LARGE."

+1 x 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 x .........exponent.....

Center mass hit Tom...

[Texas_Bryan]

Good stuff, the step Grandpa is a machinest born and educated in Germany.  Doesn't have alot of nice things to say about modern production, he's worked on airplanes for a civilian manufacturer for years now.  He's got his German machinest certification, what ever its caller, said it gets him a job but the U.S. doesn't have the same pay standards as Germany.

I'm moving towards the old school, love the machines but not the electronics and computers.