Watch this Dateline episode and tell me if this guy was guilty of murder?

[Tyler Durden]

OH!

MY!

GAWD!

I found a forum with some people who have their heads screwed on straight. Thank goodness.   

The people on Sig forum have just about made me into some soul-less Nazi death camp guard who has ice water for blood for suggesting that there is reasonable doubt and that Murder 1 and Murder 2 guilty verdicts were a stretch.

Seriously.

I am that guy.   

[tt11758]

OH!

MY!

GAWD!

I found a forum with some people who have their heads screwed on straight. Thank goodness.   

The people on Sig forum have just about made me into some soul-less Nazi death camp guard who has ice water for blood for suggesting that there is reasonable doubt and that Murder 1 and Murder 2 guilty verdicts were a stretch.

Seriously.

I am that guy.   

Welcome to the jungle.     

[Hazcat]

OH!

MY!

GAWD!

I found a forum with some people who have their heads screwed on straight. Thank goodness.  

The people on Sig forum have just about made me into some soul-less Nazi death camp guard who has ice water for blood for suggesting that there is reasonable doubt and that Murder 1 and Murder 2 guilty verdicts were a stretch.

Seriously.

I am that guy.    

Yer welcome! 

[Tyler Durden]

Yay!

I think I might have just found my new home on the internet.

So long Sig Forum!

[Texas_Bryan]

Ok after sitting through that whole thing ( and how sad am I that would do do so, except that I suffer from insomnia and what else have I got to do at 6 in the am)? However, I can say I learned four usefull things
1 Regardless of what happened, he raised a good, smart, loyal daughter. Most of us would be lucky to have that carved on our tombstones.
2 There is in fact a more pretentious and obnoxious reporter than Geraldo Rivera, something I did not believe possible.
3 The guy is guilty as hell and deserves to go to jail
4 If you ever find yourself so pissed at your neighbor, or anyone else, that you want to pick up a gun and go "talk" to them, its time to open a beer and watch TV instead.
FQ13

Where is the proof?  The jurors are all making up their own stories, 'I think...', and 'I think this...', 'he was cold and calculating.'  They can't prove that he didn't kill those people in self defense, all they had was I didn't like his attitude, and the women took one bullet to the back.  She could have realized she'd had been shot after trying to incapacitate this man, so her husband could crush his head in, then turn after the victim had already decide to pull the trigger, and a quarter second later its too late.  Even one juror said he thought that the attacker rushed the victim with the sledge hammer.  And remember he didn't decide to go 'talk' to them, the attacking woman was banging on his front door.  Please don't tell me someone starts shouting banging on your door and you don't grab a gun to defend yourself.  Regrettable incident leading to people being killed?  Yes.  Murder?  No.  Did he go down there and say, 'I'm going to kill these people'?  Did the prosecution prove to those people that he murdered them, did they prove that there was no attack?  Beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

WHEW!   Just listened past the trial (part 4 I think).

He said / she said.  He is the only witness.  Not guilty, at least by reasonable doubt.

I'll give you a maybe not guilty on the guy with the sledge hammer. Although the guy is still responsible to some degree by willingly and knowingly provoking the neighbors, and then leaving his house with a gun to go confront them when they were enraged and there was no need to do so. If he didn't realize this would cause a problem, why hire a security consultant (whatever that is) in the first place? There is an interesting little exception to Tx.'s castle doctrine, which is the most liberal in the nation as far as I know. If you start or provoke the fight, even in your own house, you DO have duty to retreat. If you don't, you're guilty. That being said, probably something less than murder, particulary 1st degree murder for killing the guy. However, when it comes to shooting an unarmed woman in the back while she is on the phone to 911, what the hell else do you call it?
FQ13

[Hazcat]

WOW!  Since you were obviously there FQ, why didn't you testify at the trial?

[Texas_Bryan]

However, when it comes to shooting an unarmed woman in the back while she is on the phone to 911, what the hell else do you call it?
FQ13

The same thing you call what that pharmacist did the moment those robbers showed up, ones got a weapon, the other doesn't appear to, no time to ask so start defending yourself.  The shot in the back doesn't bother me, like I said, a small movement could lead to that, doesn't change the fact that your being attacked.  As innocent as that pharmacist is, this guy had one up on him, he didn't shoot anyone while they were on the ground.  We both know that the phone and 911 doesn't mean a thing, you have yet to prove to me that the victim wasn't attacked, therefore his actions were justified.  And I agree, he is partly to blame for this altercation even taking place.

[fightingquaker13]

The same thing you call what that pharmacist did the moment those robbers showed up, ones got a weapon, the other doesn't appear to, no time to ask so start defending yourself.  The shot in the back doesn't bother me, like I said, a small movement could lead to that, doesn't change the fact that your being attacked.  As innocent as that pharmacist is, this guy had one up on him, he didn't shoot anyone while they were on the ground.  We both know that the phone and 911 doesn't mean a thing, you have yet to prove to me that the victim wasn't attacked, therefore his actions were justified.  And I agree, he is partly to blame for this altercation even taking place.

Well we disagree. I'm not sure how "innocent" the pharmacist is either. We agree that he should not be facing murder charges. However, you shoot and keep shooting until the threat is neutralized, then you stop. You don't leave, come back, turn your back on the BG who is "posing a clear threat" to your life, get another gun and empty it into him. Did what happened in that pharmacy constitute if not justice, then Karma, yes. Was it legal? Hell no. Why go back into the building in the first place? Why not go next door andcall the cops? These are tough calls to make in the heat of the moment, but they are the kinds of calls we agree to make when we acept responsibilty for a CCW.
FQ13

[Tyler Durden]

Elizabeth Grimes in the 911 audio tape said:

....NO!  My husband can't talk on the phone right now.  He is like so pissed!....

WOW! He must have been one pissed off hombre, to NOT be able to talk on the phone.

Maybe even pissed enough that with that sledge hammer in his hands to charge at an old man.  So pissed in fact that he kept pounding away at a 2,000 pound rock,  in a futile attempt to break it down, despite just having been to the hospital that day for his bad heart and despite the pleas of his wife as she issued him an ultimatum:

Stop it!  Just stop it!  Or I am going to go up there... to his door!

Now, that, my man, is some rage/hate/angry.   

And he kept pounding away at it.

Again, my comments are trying to back up my notion that there is reasonable doubt there.

As far as the woman being shot and I guess being shot again, Mr.  Kenney already knew that she had a propensity for confrontation and violence.

To be blunt, she was batshit crazy.

She went into an all men's bible study group in front of all those men and verbally in a tirade dressed down Mr. Kenney with all sorts of "dirty laundry" the likes of which I can only assume were accussations about his manliness or lack thereoff because his wife lived in France with their adopted daughters.

Just alone for that she should have been arrested for disorderly conduct and probably even Baker Act'ed/5150'ed.

That is just so incredibly, rediculously crazy, I really am having a hard time fathoming a woman doing that in front of a bunch of men at a church.

again getting back to why she was shot in the back....

Like Clint Smith of Thunderranch or Gunsite says every Wednesday night:

Wolves/predators tend to travel in packs.