Which AR-15 type Black Rifle

[HBMan]

Been thinking of a new rifle and with the recent light shed on the Black rifles and reading Michael's Peace with Honor got to wondering what the consensus is on these.

I realize the broad range of the following questions but I would like to see discussion on WHY buy a BLACK RIFLE?

Not really a poll but just want to see which rifles are popular and why. If you were going to help someone pick out a New rifle which one would YOU suggest?

Since there is a vast amount of options for these guns on the market right now what would be a good platform to start with in terms of accuracy out of the box, ability to be upgraded, moderate cost (I.E. best bang for the buck), good sights and things like removable handle or flat top?

What package is best for hunting or varmits?

Which brands carry the most resale value?

How are the Colt and bigger brand name rifles compared to the other brands?

How many of you own and shoot the AR-15 type rifles?


Thanks for your input.

HBMan

[Moosedog]

Good question HBMan.  I've been wondering the same thing.  I have been thinking about getting a black rifle for quite a while myself.  I think I kind of know what I want but there are so many companies to choose from that it gets a little overwhelming.  I know everybody has their favorites (kinda like asking someone who makes the best truck) but I'd still like to hear.

What are the feelings on the 6.8mm round?

I'm leaning more towards a pretty stripped down rifle to start.  Probably a carbine. 

What are the thoughts on the EOTech sights? 

Thanks for helping a newbie out.

[Pathfinder]

I have had many of the same questions, and have come across a few answers - for myself. It does all hinge on personal taste, ability to pay, and objectives.

Part of the problem is that the AR platform is so variable that the possible combinations of receiver, barrel, stock, etc. are huge. Until recently, I was unaware that you could have a .223 AR, and swap the receiver/barrel for a 6.8, keeping the lower and stock.

Also, many of the ARs apparently need work out of the box. The most common upgrade appears to be the trigger group. Michael, among others, has talked about "throwing away" the stock trigger group and getting an NM upgrade. Then there's the forearm, and stock, and  . . .  you get the picture.

Then you get to decide what kind of twist you want in the barrel, 1:6 through 1:12.

Do you want a stock AR-15A2 (as opposed to the A1), or an M-4 carbine?

I recently decided, after seeing Michael's fun with the Sig 556 at the SHOT Show to go with that rifle, and be done with it. The Sig costs more than a "standard" AR, MSRP is $1300, but it doesn't require anything additional, like the trigger group (ca. $120), railed forearm ($???), collapsible stock ($???), etc. etc. etc.

You can certainly start with another brand, like DPMS or Bushmaster, for less and then upgrade as you can afford it.

As for caliber, the deciding factor is cost and availability. .223 ammo is plentiful, getting more expensive by the week, though. 6.8 ammo is still pretty limited unless you reload and even then brass is probably more than for the .223.

[sash]

Good morning.  I'd like to weigh in with info on this subject.  I've been a soldier off and on (currently on) since 1986, going through the M16A1, M16A2 and currently the M4 military versions of this rifle.  I also own several civilian ARs in both carbine and rifle configurations. 

As to the first question, why?, my response is twofold:  First, I own these rifles because I can.  A right, like a muscle, must be exercised to be of any utility.  It is important to me to be able to own weapons, not guns.  Second, I just love to shoot.  I use my ARs in competitions and just for fun.  My wife and kids can shoot them all day and have a great time.  They are accurate and easy to operate.

As to which AR, there is no single answer.  First, determine what you want to do with the rifle.  If you plan to shoot at 50-150 yards, I'd suggest a 16" carbine.  If you plan to shoot across the course matches, I'd opt for a 20" rifle.  My preference is for either a shorty stock, or an A1 length stock, as I find the A2 to be too long, even for my long arms.

Any of the major brand names create a fine weapon that will last as long as you want.  For my money, even though my issue weapon is a Colt, I would not purchase a private AR from Colt.  They are overpriced, and offer no perceptible benefit.  A Bushmaster, Rock River or any other major maker will give you more rifle for the money.  Also, there is no need to swap triggers.  While a NM trigger may be smoother, with proper practice, the stock trigger is more than adequate.  I have been qualifying expert with stock triggers for 20 years in the Army, and shoot just fine with my personal rifles, too.  If you plan on Camp Perry, then a new trigger might make sense, but certainly not for casual shooting, or even three gun matches.

For sights, it is hard to beat the factory iron sights, and that is where any rifleman should start.  Once you are proficient with those, not before, a red dot is awfully nice.  I use an Aimpoint Comp on my service rifle, but an Eotech on my personal rifles.  Either is a great choice.  An ACOG is also fantastic, but I haven't been able to justify the cost.

As for what I actually own, in order of their use, I have the following:

S&W M&P
Bushmaster carbine
Bushmaster 20"
Rock River carbine.

Good luck.

[Snake45]

If you know what you want, and aren't afraid to shop the net, you can build your own AR EXACTLY the way you want it and save substantial $$$ over buying a complete rifle and then modding it. For one thing, you only pay fed excise tax on the cost of the lower receiver instead of on the whole rifle.

The top brands are Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt, DPMS, Rock River, Sabre Defense, and S&W. Personally, I'd put Bushmaster and DPMS about a half-cut lower than the others on that list but they all make good usable stuff and will stand behind it. My own preference is for Rock River as the best combination of excellent quality at reasonable price.

For a "starter" AR, for all-around use, I suggest a 20" govt-profile barrel in 1:9 with a flattop receiver. You don't need floated handguards to get good AR accuracy; most rifles will easily shoot into 2MOA or better and many of them will do close to 1MOA right out of the box. Chrome bore is good but not a deal-breaker if you can't get it. DO make sure you're getting a 5.56mm chamber as opposed to a .223 chamber. Most ARs come with 5.56 chambers standard but it's not a bad idea to make sure.

The flattop receiver will give you the greatest versatility in mounting sights of various kinds. And DO make sure you have some kind of iron sights. Even the cheap ($40-50) Chinese clone carry handle/sights will do a good job if you sight the thing in and then leave it alone. (I have two of these and they're not world-class equipment by any means but they DO work and will do for most civilian uses.)

The M4-type telestock looks cool but is not as comfortable to shoot. It is useful however if children or small women will be shooting your rifle, as it adjusts to different lengths. I prefer the standard fixed A1 stock.

If you're looking at a short (16") carbine, do yourself a HUGE favor and check out the so-called midlength gas systems instead of the standard M4 carbine length gas system/handguards. The midlength is just a better mousetrap all the way around.

[Sponsor]

[Michael Bane]

Good replies! There are so many differnt options that it boggles the mid. I presently have 3 ARs, and their variety illustrates what's available out there:

• J&T/Doublestar M-4 (the yellow gun)
• JP Enterprises competition rifle
• S&W M&P

The M-4 is a carry-handle iron-sight gun built before the AWB sunsetted; the other two are flattops. The S&W has an Aimpoint M3 on it; the JP a Leupold Mark 4 1-3X CQ/T. I have an order in for a SIGARMS 556 (they're 'way backed up). The JP is a racehorse and shoots as well as anything I've ever shot; the S&W sort of a Swiss Army Knife kinda gun (I've been through GUNSITE with it).

I've found with my eyes — ie, OLD; and the documented-on-the-blog bout with shingles damaged my dominant right eye — the 1X Aimpoint is a 100-yard max sight. If I'm actually going to be shooting longer distances, I prefer the Leupold or one of the 4X Trijicons, which I don't presently have, although I do have one on order.

I'm probably going to revisit the M-4 or mid-length "house gun" concept in the near future, maybe with a short carbine from Sabre, Stag or DPMS, ideally fitted with one of the excellent SureFire suppressors once I wade through the paperwork. I'm getting my feet wet, so to speak, with the paperwork on a Tactical Solutions ultralight rimfire suppressor, so I'll let you know hot that goes. I've done a lot of work with the SureFire suppressors on ARs and I really like them.

Michael B

[Snake45]

House carbines? Oh yeah, baby....

[Michael Bane]

Hey Snake;

I knew I cold depend on yu to have an M1 Carbine, the most under-rated little gun in the world!

mb

[DonWorsham]

After my wife's next purchase (looking for a S&W model 65LS) I'm thinking M1 Carbine for Mr. Worsham!

[Moosedog]

I have been primarily looking at Bushmaster and lately Rock River Arms.  Snake45 and Sash,  I forgot to add I was looking at the 20" barrels as well.  I had thought about the A1 stock but since I will be having my son shoot it as well (maybe even my wife since she thinks she can outshoot me) I probably will opt for the M4 telestock.  I will have to look into the Smith M&P,  though.