No Racism in America, No siree.

[tombogan03884]

Tom
I'm not trying to make a political point, just trying, as one craftsman to another to let you know something. I spend about 4-5 hours on research on every 1 hour lecture I give. I spend weeks putting togther a syllabus, trying to find as many articles and book chapters as I can to allow the studnts to buy a $50 kinko's packet rather than three or four seventy dollar books. I assign three 5-7 page take home essays rather than multiple choice exams even in intro classes where I have 400 students, and yes thats 2,000 pages for me to read. Say what you want, but I make it a point of pride to give my students their money's worth. I also give them my home phone number, have them over for dinner, and will call them if they haven't been showing up. I take pride in my work Tom. I hope you do as well.
FQ13

So basically your telling me that these kids parents are paying tens of thousands of dollars for the Cliff Notes version of what I got at the library  for $.25 a year ?  ( back when they charged for the card )

[Pathfinder]

Again TT, the fact that you are able to read, write and have the knowledge to earn your paycheck, as well as being smart enough to offer generally well informed commentary on this board indicates that teachers earn their paychecks as well. As far as tenure at universities, there is a very good reason for it. The fact is that people get in trouble for their politics (Either liberal or conservative, it depends on the school.) all the time. They also get in trouble because they aren't using the trendy method of research at a given moment. Tenure is hard to get, frequently denied, and serves to insure ethical integrity on the part of the adminstration (and I don't need to lecture anyone on the general mindset of school administrators anywhere. We all have enough experience with them.). Please understand I'm not defending Gates here. He was a nice thoughtful guy when I met him, but it sounds like he became an Ahole from the story. I am however defending my proffesion from criticism from folks who have'nt thought their arguements through. You're a smart guy TT, give it some thought.
FQ13

I was in a former life a graduate student working on a Masters in Anthropology and Archeology. The sheer venality of the faculties I encountered, the self-serving aggrandizement, and the pampered nature of tenure contribute to producing the Gates characters. They believe - deep down - that they are special and that somehow they are entitled to show everyone just how special.
- The Asst. Prof. who just had to rub the fact that he got a free copy of a very expensive textbook in the noses of his grad students - who would have to pay for theirs.
- The Assoc. Prof. (black) who gave automatic B's to any woman who sat in the front row with a short skirt. The A's were reserved for the women who slept with him.
- The Assoc. Prof. who poo-poo'd an incredible find, dismissing it as trivial - only to take credit for finding it and putting that very item on the cover of his new book.
- The full professor who made his mark by being an open and avowed Marxist, insisting - thousands of years of science to the contrary - that you can successfully interpret cultural activities through Marxist dogma.
- The full professor, and head of the department, who could be told 3 times what time it was, and he still would ask you what time it was.

And on it goes. In my grad school, I had 1 - count 'em 1 - professor who was any good, and he was a PhD. in biology working in physical anthropology. At least he made you think, not simply regurgitate. In 6 years of college and grad school combined, I had maybe 6 professors worthy of respect for themselves. The rest were simply mediocre to average people trying to get by and move up the food chain.

FQ, you really think Gates' research is all that good? He is so agenda driven (starting with his role at the WEB Dubois center) I guarantee you if his work was truly researched - and not peer-approved for fear of being called racist as he immediately did with the cops - his research will be found to have a conclusion reached first, followed by his research to substantiate that point.

This ain't about reading, son, it is about character and being decent. And Gates may be the first, he ain't the second.

[fightingquaker13]

So basically your telling me that these kids parents are paying tens of thousands of dollars for the Cliff Notes version of what I got at the library  for $.25 a year ?  ( back when they charged for the card )

No Tom. Its me taking the relevant chapters out of books and copying them by hand. Hundreds of pages worth, out of a couple of dozen books. I then get to apply for copy write and see that they are bound correctly. All to save them the money of buying the whole thing if all they need is chapter four. Tom, I've never said this to you before, but I probably should have, KMA! I work hard for my kids and I don't need your crap when I am busting my butt to do my job the right way.
FQ13

[deepwater]

Dude, if you and Haz don't lay off the Pisco, TW and I WILL drive up there and deliver you to M'lette for punishment! Of course, that might be kind of fun. (sorry Marshall).
FQ13

dude,
I really am home schooled. and yes, I am an ENGINEER!!!! and what will really mess your day up.... I did it on my own. I didn't graduate from high school... everything I've earned has been earned by HARD WORK and BRAINS!
ON MY OWN!!!!!

[Rastus]

..................
- The Asst. Prof. who just had to rub the fact that he got a free copy of a very expensive textbook in the noses of his grad students - who would have to pay for theirs.
- The Assoc. Prof. (black) who gave automatic B's to any woman who sat in the front row with a short skirt. The A's were reserved for the women who slept with him.
- The Assoc. Prof. who poo-poo'd an incredible find, dismissing it as trivial - only to take credit for finding it and putting that very item on the cover of his new book.
- The full professor who made his mark by being an open and avowed Marxist, insisting - thousands of years of science to the contrary - that you can successfully interpret cultural activities through Marxist dogma.
- The full professor, and head of the department, who could be told 3 times what time it was, and he still would ask you what time it was.
...............

Or the Sociology teacher you could con with a 20 minute before period barely page and a half paper and get an B (turned it in a class late, oh well) by stroking her "issues"...like we know that some retarded people can't and will never learn to count to five, but as a society we should allow them to participate fully with everybody else to not hurt their feelings and let everyone else pick up the slack to be socially responsible...yes, I really wrote that.

Or the English teacher who thought bull riders should be outlawed unless they wore helmets and pads....all you had to do was sprinkle your paper with liberal slime ideas to get an A...OK..did that too....sorry to bust your bubble, but when in Rome....and we all laughed about doing it to get the grades after class.

Or the Art teacher who was a soldier in WWII who brought Picasso (or some other famous painter in occupied France) some paints...speak of the joy of Picasso..instant A

Then there was the statics and dynamics teacher, the Diff eq teacher, the mechanics of materials teacher, the quan and qual teacher, the geology and petrophysics dudes...all jerks...we really had to do the work...how rude.   What is it about the physical sciences teachers....geez...you gotta take tests, the answers are the answers plus or minus a significant digit and though you could try to con them by talking dirty about how to apply calculus to solve routine problems...the jerks never gave me a break.  I'm damaged...I want restitution.....they made me work....how insensitive.

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

Or the Sociology teacher you could con with a 20 minute before period barely page and a half paper and get an B (turned it in a class late, oh well) by stroking her "issues"...like we know that some retarded people can't and will never learn to count to five, but as a society we should allow them to participate fully with everybody else to not hurt their feelings and let everyone else pick up the slack to be socially responsible...yes, I really wrote that.

Or the English teacher who thought bull riders should be outlawed unless they wore helmets and pads....all you had to do was sprinkle your paper with liberal slime ideas to get an A...OK..did that too....sorry to bust your bubble, but when in Rome....and we all laughed about doing it to get the grades after class.

Or the Art teacher who was a soldier in WWII who brought Picasso (or some other famous painter in occupied France) some paints...speak of the joy of Picasso..instant A

Then there was the statics and dynamics teacher, the Diff eq teacher, the mechanics of materials teacher, the quan and qual teacher, the geology and petrophysics dudes...all jerks...we really had to do the work...how rude.   What is it about the physical sciences teachers....geez...you gotta take tests, the answers are the answers plus or minus a significant digit and though you could try to con them by talking dirty about how to apply calculus to solve routine problems...the jerks never gave me a break.  I'm damaged...I want restitution.....they made me work....how insensitive.

Keep talking Rastus.
I'm not not going to make excuses for every teacher because god knows there are plenty of lazy and incompetant cops, plumbers and lawyers out there. Teacher's are no different. I do, however get a bit testy when I do my job, well and conscientiously, and for not all that much money, and get crap thrown in my face by people who have obviously been educated (well) by people a lot like me. The day you are SUPPOSED to be ashamed to say you teach the next generation is a sad day indeed. As I said, I do my job, I do it to the best of my ability, and I take pride in my work. I only hope you can say the same.
FQ13

[Rastus]

Keep talking Rastus.
I'm not not going to make excuses for every teaher because god knows there are plenty of lazy and incompetant cops, plumbers and lawyers out the3re. Teacher's are no different. I do, however get a bit testy when I do my job, well and conscientiously, and for not all that much money, and get crap thrown in my face by people who have obviously been educated (well) by people a lot like me. The day you are SUPPOSED to be ashamed to say you teach the next generation is a sad day indeed. As I said, I do my job, I do it to the best of my ability, and I take pride in my work. I only hope you can say the same.
FQ13

I'll dispose of my self-imposed non-response policy for this response.  Have I ever said that you were not a good and dilgent teacher for the subject matter you taught?  I may have bashed your politics, but I don't know that I criticized your work.  The majority of liberal arts teachers at three universities I attended (well, one college, two universities) were susceptable to manipulation by agreeing with their politics to achieve a higher score or to achieve a score commensurate with content whereas math and physical science teachers as a whole were not susceptable to the same type of shennanigans.  

For Full Disclosure
This is, admittedly, from a small population so the sampling by itself is not valid as a statistical trend that can be applied to the universe of school populations; but does imply the possibility of a trend and goes beyond the tendancy of confirmation of concept when coupled with many similar observations gleaned and confirmed from other engineers, scientists (including ones I worked with at SNL [Sandia National Labs]) and geologists from varied interests and varied institutions across the U.S. and from a U.S. sampling population of only of schools of higher education that offered liberal arts and physical sciences classes and mostly with graduate programs in both liberal arts and physical sciences.

[Kid Shelleen]

Tom
I'm not trying to make a political point, just trying, as one craftsman to another to let you know something. I spend about 4-5 hours on research on every 1 hour lecture I give. I spend weeks putting togther a syllabus, trying to find as many articles and book chapters as I can to allow the studnts to buy a $50 kinko's packet rather than three or four seventy dollar books. I assign three 5-7 page take home essays rather than multiple choice exams even in intro classes where I have 400 students, and yes thats 2,000 pages for me to read. Say what you want, but I make it a point of pride to give my students their money's worth. I also give them my home phone number, have them over for dinner, and will call them if they haven't been showing up. I take pride in my work Tom. I hope you do as well.
FQ13

OK, on the lighter side, you're a university professor, correct? Having those 18 to 22 y/o co-eds over for dinner.......I have a couple of degrees, do you need a TA? I'll help with the dinners. The 2000 pages you're on your own. My generosity only goes so far.

[fightingquaker13]

I'll dispose of my self-imposed non-response policy for this response.  Have I ever said that you were not a good and dilgent teacher for the subject matter you taught?  I may have bashed your politics, but I don't know that I criticized your work.  The majority of liberal arts teachers at three universities I attended (well, one college, two universities) were susceptable to manipulation by agreeing with their politics to achieve a higher score or to achieve a score commensurate with content whereas math and physical science teachers as a whole were not susceptable to the same type of shennanigans.  

For Full Disclosure
This is, admittedly, from a small population so the sampling by itself is not valid as a statistical trend that can be applied to the universe of school populations; but does imply the possibility of a trend and goes beyond the tendancy of confirmation of concept when coupled with many similar observations gleaned and confirmed from other engineers, scientists (including ones I worked with at SNL [Sandia National Labs]) and geologists from varied interests and varied institutions across the U.S. and from a U.S. sampling population of only of schools of higher education that offered liberal arts and physical sciences classes and mostly with graduate programs in both liberal arts and physical sciences.

Rastus
You should drop the non-response policy. You're a smart guy, I like to think I'm not all that stupid either. We just disagree. But, to quote Heinlein, I never learned anything from a man who agreed with me. Just sayin', and thanks for your post.
FQ13 who may not agree with you, but does respect you
PS I'm sorry about your experience, but I know that I speak for the vast majorityof my friends when I say that any thirty something prof who is so insecure that they would bully or bribe a 19 year old into fakeing ageement with them, is the poster child for pathetic. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is viewed as being as weak and sad as trying to sleep with your students. It is the kiss of death if you get caught, as it should be.

[fightingquaker13]

OK, on the lighter side, you're a university professor, correct? Having those 18 to 22 y/o co-eds over for dinner.......I have a couple of degrees, do you need a TA? I'll help with the dinners. The 2000 pages you're on your own. My generosity only goes so far.

Kid
I made $42,00 at my last job. To be be blunt, NO 19 year old co-ed is that good. As a TA of course, you would have less to lose, but you WILL be grading some of those papers!
FQ13 who hears nothing, sees nothing and knows nothing