Author Topic: Sound problems on the show??  (Read 8767 times)

229Mick

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Sound problems on the show??
« on: August 20, 2009, 12:31:31 AM »
Anybody else experienced this? It seems that whenever I watch Shooting Gallery (and only Shooting Gallery, no other shows on Outdoor, or any others channels) that when someone shoots and it gives a particularly abrupt and mid to high pop, the sound gets muted by about 80% for about the next 5 to 7 seconds.  Often it's not even the POP, but the TANG! when it hits a metal target. Technically speaking it sounds like there is a limiter on Michael's mic and it's set to kick in quick, and shut off REALLY slow. The funny thing is that the ambient sounds usually continue just fine, so it's just his mic or channel. Because of that, I'm expecting it's not my local feed, but the source, but by the same token, if it was happening everywhere I'd expect that the production folks would do something about it.

Has anybody else noticed this?

Mick

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Re: Sound problems on the show??
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2009, 12:36:41 AM »
Anybody else experienced this? It seems that whenever I watch Shooting Gallery (and only Shooting Gallery, no other shows on Outdoor, or any others channels) that when someone shoots and it gives a particularly abrupt and mid to high pop, the sound gets muted by about 80% for about the next 5 to 7 seconds.  Often it's not even the POP, but the TANG! when it hits a metal target. Technically speaking it sounds like there is a limiter on Michael's mic and it's set to kick in quick, and shut off REALLY slow. The funny thing is that the ambient sounds usually continue just fine, so it's just his mic or channel. Because of that, I'm expecting it's not my local feed, but the source, but by the same token, if it was happening everywhere I'd expect that the production folks would do something about it.

Has anybody else noticed this?

Mick

Short answer, no.  I do notice that the shows sound quality overall is poor. I have mentioned this to MB.  I have to raise the volume for the show and the commercials blow me out of the room.
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MAUSERMAN

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Re: Sound problems on the show??
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2009, 01:10:48 AM »
Same here the sound goes up and down. But this only happens when i watch it in HD, when i go back to the regular channel the sound is perfect.
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alfsauve

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Re: Sound problems on the show??
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2009, 07:00:43 AM »
It would help to know which carrier you all are using?   Is it cable (Comcast, Charter....) or sat  (DirecTV, Dish, etc.)?   How the carrier handles the modulation on their network makes all the difference.   While broadcast TV is controlled by the FCC and public complaints about higher levels of audio for commercials may garner a "notice", cable and sat providers play by a looser set of rules.
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Hazcat

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Re: Sound problems on the show??
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2009, 08:34:22 AM »
It would help to know which carrier you all are using?   Is it cable (Comcast, Charter....) or sat  (DirecTV, Dish, etc.)?   How the carrier handles the modulation on their network makes all the difference.   While broadcast TV is controlled by the FCC and public complaints about higher levels of audio for commercials may garner a "notice", cable and sat providers play by a looser set of rules.

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Re: Sound problems on the show??
« Reply #5 on: Today at 09:53:00 PM »

philw

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Re: Sound problems on the show??
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2009, 08:36:06 AM »
can not say I have the sound issue ......


that's right  I just have a reception issue over here..




sorry had to..   ;D
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BigSaucy

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Re: Sound problems on the show??
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2009, 09:22:28 AM »
Anybody else experienced this? It seems that whenever I watch Shooting Gallery (and only Shooting Gallery, no other shows on Outdoor, or any others channels) that when someone shoots and it gives a particularly abrupt and mid to high pop, the sound gets muted by about 80% for about the next 5 to 7 seconds.  Often it's not even the POP, but the TANG! when it hits a metal target. Technically speaking it sounds like there is a limiter on Michael's mic and it's set to kick in quick, and shut off REALLY slow. The funny thing is that the ambient sounds usually continue just fine, so it's just his mic or channel. Because of that, I'm expecting it's not my local feed, but the source, but by the same token, if it was happening everywhere I'd expect that the production folks would do something about it.

Has anybody else noticed this?

Mick

If by chance it's a Scientific Alanta cable box and possibly other varieties there is an 'Audio Range' setting that on my cable system defaults to 'Narrow' this keeps quiet sounds louder and loud sounds quieter... the downside to this is on shooting shows the quick transients of gunshots cause the system to clamp down and it doesn't react quickly enough to let the following dialog through for a few seconds. Try setting Audio Range to 'Normal' if you have that option.

It used to happen to all shows for me too... I suspect it's a function of how much or little dynamic control is applied in the final production mix of the show but that's just me being an audio geek and is probably too much information so please disregard.   ;D

alfsauve

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Re: Sound problems on the show??
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2009, 12:04:12 PM »
Regardless of how a show is mixed, there is significant compression that goes on with the carriers.   They're trying to squeeze as much out of the bandwidth (sat or cable) as they can and in doing so they make sacrifices to the quality.

Just to give you an idea how convoluted some of the signal routing can be:  I was a remote site (uplink as well as downlink) for Dave Ramsey's Town Hall Meeting recently.  Signals from our site went by sat to NY (1 hop), then they went by sat to the actual event site with Dave (2 hops), then they went back to FBN's studio in NY (3hops), then to DirecTV out west (4 hops), then back to NY for DTV quality control (5 Hops), back to DTV out west (6 hops) and finally to subscribers (7 hops).  Delay time ~17 seconds!  Each hop - each studio, added their own processing to the signal.   What people saw on TV was not exactly the same as what we originated.



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BigSaucy

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Re: Sound problems on the show??
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2009, 04:44:01 PM »
Regardless of how a show is mixed, there is significant compression that goes on with the carriers.   They're trying to squeeze as much out of the bandwidth (sat or cable) as they can and in doing so they make sacrifices to the quality.

Just to give you an idea how convoluted some of the signal routing can be:  I was a remote site (uplink as well as downlink) for Dave Ramsey's Town Hall Meeting recently.  Signals from our site went by sat to NY (1 hop), then they went by sat to the actual event site with Dave (2 hops), then they went back to FBN's studio in NY (3hops), then to DirecTV out west (4 hops), then back to NY for DTV quality control (5 Hops), back to DTV out west (6 hops) and finally to subscribers (7 hops).  Delay time ~17 seconds!  Each hop - each studio, added their own processing to the signal.   What people saw on TV was not exactly the same as what we originated.



You're absolutely right... the regional live telecasts I work on hit at least six gain/transmission stages before they reach the audience and that's only one market. In my personal experience the last stage (in my case, the cable box) can adversely effect shooting shows and have been improved as I described and I think has a decent chance of being the root of 229Mick's posted problem... your experiences may vary.

As a sports tv audio mixer, I still contend that controlling the transient dynamic audio levels at stage one would go a long way to solving the problems I've encountered watching shooting shows on television.


alfsuave, something tells me we work in the same industry. ;)

alfsauve

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Re: Sound problems on the show??
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2009, 06:48:44 PM »
alfsuave alfsauve, something tells me we work in the same industry. ;)

Actually, BigSaucy, yes and no.   I'm a jack-of-all-trades.  A Technical Director at a very large church. Produced a live, local TV show for three years.  Maintain two video control rooms(7 cameras total), 6 venues with lights, sound, video projection, 2 video editing rooms, 1 audio editing room, plus reproduction facilities (mostly for CD/DVD now, but use to be any-to-any).    I wear whatever hat the moment calls for.  Frustrating-----yep.  Busy----yep.   Rewarding----definitely.   No ruts here.

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