10 MM

[Jackel]

i shot a nice 290+lbs bull elk from my deck with my 9mm, at around 45 yards it was a easy shot with my sig. found him an hour later 20 yards into the tree line. when i opened him up i had took out the heart and both lungs.

The point is its all about shot placement.

[tombogan03884]

 Is that kind of small for an Elk ?
I'm not being wise, we don't have them here but we do get whitetails over 200lbs,Average is 100 - 150 but real big ones are out there.

[texcaliber]

what make was the 9mm and what was the status of bullet(recovered or no) info

[Jackel]

Winchester silvertip 115 grain. the bullet was lodged inside his far ribcage and had expanded pretty nicely, when i fond it it had spun a bunch inside and was facing towards the direction i shot it from. will try and find a pic.

[texcaliber]

Thank you Jackel, I would very much appreciate that pic.

[Sponsor]

[twyacht]

from bushpilot.
The .40 S&W is a poor performer as a pistol round as many are finding out. Speed is too low to offer consistant expansion as I am told by a medical exaimner and State Police bullistics expert.

Please cite the specific "many" that are disappointed in the .40 S&W.

Speed is not an issue with the .40 S&W, get them up over 1100 to 1200 fps, and expansion is up to .70 depending on bullet. Maybe that's why more LEO dept.'s are getting 40 S&W. and the 10mm is a great obscurity.

The Winchester factory load for the .40 S&W (The 10MM Short?) duplicates the FBI load for the 10MM (The 10MM Light?), both of which are rated at 950 fps with a 180 grain bullet. The Winchester load clocks 963 feet per second from a four-inch barreled .40 S&W over the triple skyscreens of the Oehler Model 35P and the Federal "FBI" load goes 948 feet per second from a five-inch S&W Model 1006.

Speed is the same in this particular load. Something backwards here as the ballistics are the same but the uniformed officer carries the medium-sized pistol and the undercover agent carries the full-sized pistol. Hmmmm?

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/40s&w.htm

The 10mm is a great round for it's "niche", just like the 41 Magnum.  It's great but not mass marketed like the .40 S&W.
Plus ammo is cheaper.

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=11&Weight=All

Based on this table of documented shootings, the 40 S&W with a given round has a 94% 1 shot stop.

But so can a 22lr, comes down to practice, and shot placement.

[texcaliber]

One shot stop vs. one shot incapacitation is a huge difference.

[twyacht]

One shot stop vs. one shot incapacitation is a huge difference.

Yet both yield the same result: Their not shooting back anymore.

[texcaliber]

Good point if reaction is the end goal you bet your life on. I like to bet on facts and results.

Just opinion but I will take "zero shot stops" any day but I want the gun loaded with the best "One shot Incapacitaters" that i could find based on facts. J.I.C.

[twyacht]

I think tex, we're on different roads going to the same destination.

Results at Ft. Hood had an LEO that was shot but not incapacitated return fire and incapacitate the shooter. Hasan survived, but was not able to continue shooting. Thankfully.

I bet my life on top-shelf ammo, based on documented shootings,and ballistic research and data, but the ammo won't matter without training, shot placement, and a thousand other variables.

My CCW instructor in NC, was/is retired NYC Police, he mentioned a BG shot point blank in the center chest with a .357 Magnum JHP's, get up, charge again, and wrestle with 4 officers before being handcuffed.

He died 20 minutes later. But when he got back up and charged again, he was not incapacitated. .357 has a 96% one shot stop probability, but like statistics, you can only read so much into them.