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Author Topic: Seeking Advice On Double Tap Shooting Drills with .45ACP  (Read 12932 times)

twyacht

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Re: Seeking Advice On Double Tap Shooting Drills with .45ACP
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2009, 05:59:54 PM »
In a BG just feet away confrontation, the decisions to draw, aim and fire have to happen very quickly.

My concern is in regards to training and "firing until the threat is stopped" without firing too quickly. I've read too many LEO shooting reports of multiple rounds fired, and only a few hits.

I would like to achieve a "balance" of shooting fast enough to end a life threatening incident, and not sending bullets astray.

Hence, the slang term of a double tap.  A retired BSO Detective, said that 2 to the chest and 1 to the head, in case of a BG in body armor,on meth, big dude, etc,.. aka Mozambique Drill, is one drill to consider.

Just trying to get the "mind" right in regards to tempo and shot control in a Life or Death confrontation. It seems a daunting task.

The spray & pray with a high capacity magazine is something I would like to avoid. Shooting 8 to 10 rounds, but only getting 2 hits seems like somethings amiss,.. two or three rounds with a concentrated effort on those shots, "should" stop a threat. I know there are variables out the wazoo, but combat accuracy in a 2 to 5 shot string is what I'm trying to get without going too fast, let alone having to move and shoot as well.

Sounds like I need Rob to swing down to S. Fl. this winter where we can get out the SPF 15 and get a class together. Maybe???

Thanks for all the input.

Practice, Practice, Practice...
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Col. Jeff Cooper.

twyacht

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Re: Seeking Advice On Double Tap Shooting Drills with .45ACP
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2009, 06:37:32 PM »
Quote from: Timothy on October 22, 2009, 06:04:59 PM
Maybe we can convince Rob to schedule one around the NRA convention next year.  I'm seriously considering making the trip!

I hope you do Timothy, I have "kin" folk 30 minutes North of Charlotte, in Mooresville. Private family farm, target shooting, big family farmhouse with a great wine cellar, and plenty of Southern Hospitality.

Me and at least 1 co-worker are driving up, in May, if I can drag the Haz out and catch Peg along the way, I'm driving.

Hope you can make it. I am looking forward to the NRA show, and a Rob session is possible.



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Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

Hazcat

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Re: Seeking Advice On Double Tap Shooting Drills with .45ACP
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2009, 06:43:55 PM »
Quote from: twyacht on October 22, 2009, 06:37:32 PM
I hope you do Timothy, I have "kin" folk 30 minutes North of Charlotte, in Mooresville. Private family farm, target shooting, big family farmhouse with a great wine cellar, and plenty of Southern Hospitality.

Me and at least 1 co-worker are driving up, in May, if I can drag the Haz out and catch Peg along the way, I'm driving.

Hope you can make it. I am looking forward to the NRA show, and a Rob session is possible.





I'm hoping to make it, TW.
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twyacht

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Re: Seeking Advice On Double Tap Shooting Drills with .45ACP
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2009, 06:58:01 PM »
Quote from: Hazcat on October 22, 2009, 06:43:55 PM
I'm hoping to make it, TW.

Holy Smokes! What a trip this is shaping up to be!!! Sounds like a possible DRTV rendezvous!!!  Let me know if you want to ride with. 

Peg's next...  ;)

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Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

PegLeg45

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Re: Seeking Advice On Double Tap Shooting Drills with .45ACP
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2009, 07:09:52 PM »
When I feel my skills 'slipping' in the accuracy versus speed area, I have always used a set of practice drills using varying sizes of  colored plastic plates (Solo brand). You can get them from 6" to 12" and in several colors. I glue them to a cardboard backer and shoot from different angles, positions, stances, etc. until I can keep them all in the smallest plate. Then I transfer to a standard silhouette target and go at it for a while. The plates always tighten my groupings on the silhouette.

A friend uses colored paper down to 3x5 index cards to do the same thing.

It works better if you have a range partner to call out targets at random.

I still practice the 'standard' drills, but this has always helped my shooting focus a bit.


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"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

For the Patriots of this country, the Constitution is second only to the Bible for most. For those who love this country, but do not share my personal beliefs, it is their Bible. To them nothing comes before the Constitution of these United States of America. For this we are all labeled potential terrorists. ~ Dean Garrison

"When it comes to the enemy, just because they ain't pullin' a trigger, doesn't mean they ain't totin' ammo for those that are."~PegLeg

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Re: Seeking Advice On Double Tap Shooting Drills with .45ACP
« Reply #15 on: Today at 08:38:47 PM »
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Hazcat

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Re: Seeking Advice On Double Tap Shooting Drills with .45ACP
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2009, 07:15:32 PM »
Quote from: twyacht on October 22, 2009, 06:58:01 PM
Holy Smokes! What a trip this is shaping up to be!!! Sounds like a possible DRTV rendezvous!!!  Let me know if you want to ride with. 

Peg's next...  ;)



Ride along, of course.  What fun would it be other wise!  ;D
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PegLeg45

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Re: Seeking Advice On Double Tap Shooting Drills with .45ACP
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2009, 07:19:36 PM »
Trouble is brewing....................  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D
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"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

For the Patriots of this country, the Constitution is second only to the Bible for most. For those who love this country, but do not share my personal beliefs, it is their Bible. To them nothing comes before the Constitution of these United States of America. For this we are all labeled potential terrorists. ~ Dean Garrison

"When it comes to the enemy, just because they ain't pullin' a trigger, doesn't mean they ain't totin' ammo for those that are."~PegLeg

Hazcat

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Re: Seeking Advice On Double Tap Shooting Drills with .45ACP
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2009, 07:21:32 PM »
Quote from: PegLeg45 on October 22, 2009, 07:19:36 PM
Trouble is brewing....................  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

You coming, Peg?
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PegLeg45

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Re: Seeking Advice On Double Tap Shooting Drills with .45ACP
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2009, 07:27:35 PM »
Quote from: Hazcat on October 22, 2009, 07:21:32 PM
You coming, Peg?

It's definitely on my "wanna do" list....but it is way to far ahead to plan.
May is a busy month with school and FFA functions.

Don't count me out......just can't count me in this early.  :(  :(
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"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

For the Patriots of this country, the Constitution is second only to the Bible for most. For those who love this country, but do not share my personal beliefs, it is their Bible. To them nothing comes before the Constitution of these United States of America. For this we are all labeled potential terrorists. ~ Dean Garrison

"When it comes to the enemy, just because they ain't pullin' a trigger, doesn't mean they ain't totin' ammo for those that are."~PegLeg

Rob Pincus

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Re: Seeking Advice On Double Tap Shooting Drills with .45ACP
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2009, 08:24:31 PM »
TW,

I don't want to oversimplify, really, if you break the concept of Balance of Speed & Precision down, you'll see past the "spray and pray" issue. Generally, cops have low hit percentages because their training (often geared to their qualification course) is not even close to representative of real counter ambush shooting. "you have 10 seconds to fire 3 rounds" or whatever has nothing to do with "Get 4 good hits as fast as you can"... I'm suggesting you practice the later. Defining "good hit" is about picking realistic target sizes at plausible distances.

PS- I've got a course in Titusville the weekend after thanksgiving!

Pegleg,

You drill is very much like one we run in CFS... we put it in the family of "BoS&P Drills" because you have varying levels of precision necessary based on different stimuli (your partners commands and what you see.)  Good Job!

-RJP
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