Conservatives Don't Need A Leader

[WatchManUSA]

Obama wasn’t elected because the public rejected conservative values.  Our Maximum Leader and the left won because:

•   Bush 43 messed up in Iraq
•   The economy went in the tank
•   The lap dog press made Bush 43 look hapless
•   The Republicans had no substantive plan to move forward except more of the same
•   Obama out organized the RNC at the grass roots level

In marketing classes I took it was beat into the class that you don’t win a market share battle and overtake the market leader by emulating the market leader.  You have to be different and be perceived as offering a “better” alternative to the market leader.  I think this applies to politics, too.

People like Lindsey Graham and John McCain, who want to seen as centrists are taking us to the same the place as Maximum Leader.  It’s just that the car is going slower.  It takes longer to get to the same place.  The left are not going to like them no matter what they do because they have a “R” initial after their name. 

Look at Bush 43 who implemented Kennedy’s education program and started Medicare D.  Once the “D’s” help get the bills passed they beat Bush 43 up about bills being too little.

If you are going to get beat up for tying what good did it do?

Let’s get beat up and let’s fight over conservative values.  Conservative does not mean Republican – at least to me.

[MikeBjerum]

This may be the first bad you hear about Pawlenty, but if he moves forward you will hear a lot of negative "spin."

The thing he is hated for up here by many is that he has a history of trying to hold the line on spending.  However, when he is successful from his desk no one else will follow suit. So, what you end up with is DNR raising its license fees; agencies adding or raising fees for their services; and counties, cities and schools raising their levies.  I'm not saying he is perfect or without blame, but he is catching heat that isn't his to take in a lot of areas.

Also, just like the on going list of "it's Bush's fault" list, did you know that all of our highway issues, including the colapse of a large bridge, are all Gov. Tim's fault?

While I'm waiting for the right guy to come along, Mr. Pawlenty is filling the lesser of evils slot at this time.  However, you need to remember that I am just another nutted Minnesotan out here 

[fightingquaker13]

Ok, smartass, explain two things to me, in light of your comments. 

1)  If the country is moderate with a slight lean to the right, why the hell did they (you) elect a Marxist/Socialist as President?

2)  Kindly explain the two Reagan landslide victories.


I realize that I'm not an all-knowing member of the intellectual elite, so please, Mr. professor, enlighten me.

That makes two of us.
1
1)They elected Obama partially for the same reason they elected Carter (and with much the same result it seems). That is, he came aong in the wake of a failed and disgraced GOP administration. As has been pointed out earlier, Bush screwed up. He failed the "Are you better off now then you were four years ago" test.
2) They elected him partially for the same reason they elected Reagan. He offered hope in the wake of failure. Americans love an optimist with a can do attitude. The program was different, but the sales pitch was the same.
3) As far as Reagan himself went, the man talked like a conservative, but governed as a pragmatist. He got his two big issues, tax cuts and a stronger military. Beyond that though he was pretty much a moderate with a rightward tilt. He talked a good game on abortion and the New Deal programs and the rest of it, but he really didn't do much about it. He didn't really want to, because he knew the American people wanted reform not revolution. Peggy Noonan (who ought to know better than either of us) wrote that Reagan wouldn't survive a GOP primary if he ran today. There is the real Reagan, and the current cult of Reagan. If you look back at the real Reagan you see a guy who was able to keep the base happy with small progress on their issues, but mostly just by listening to them and giving them a seat at the table. The religious right is exhibit A. He mostly hewed slightly right of center and didn't make too many enemies of the moderates. This let him build the broad coalitions he neede to get his two huge reforms through. This is a lesson that W., and it seems BO didn't get. The bottom line is that Reagan was a rhetorical President much like BO. The two big differences were that he was able to make the compromises necessary to get things done, and he was more in tune with te average Americns ideology than BO. If you're looking for ideological purity, Reagan ain't it. Great President, but not above making whatever compromises he needed to in order to push his main agenda through.
FQ13

[WatchManUSA]

While I'm waiting for the right guy to come along, Mr. Pawlenty is filling the lesser of evils slot at this time.  However, you need to remember that I am just another nutted Minnesotan out here 

Pawlenty is more conservative as the Gov than when he was in the MN House.  The biggest thing he did in MN this year was vetoing all the tax increases and the budget bills.  The legislature session ended without a tax or budget bill signed.  Pawlenty refused to have a special session and he used emergency powers granted in MN law (unallotment) that gave him the right to build his own budget based on current tax revenue estimates.  In essence he told the DFL controlled legislature "f**k you."  He called their bluff. That’s worth something.

However, as m58 said, local taxes and fees have gone up to help cover the reduction in State money.

[MikeBjerum]

However, as m58 said, local taxes and fees have gone up to help cover the reduction in State money.

And I don't know where you stand on this move WatchManUSA, but I say good move Mr. Pawlenty, and bad move agencies and local officials for not holding the line.  When the general public is holding still or hurting it is time for public workers to suck it up as well.  However, the majority of our public workers are union with guaranteed benefits and pay increases (the pay increases may not be much, but 5% over three years with 3% the first is better than many private sector).  Look at our teachers that may "only" get 3% over two years (latest contract down here), but that does not include the contractural and mentioned increase for longevity and continuing education.  Everyyear these teachers are getting increases for just teaching another year and for taking college classes that raise there payscale point.

Rant ... on hold, but not off 

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

 I'm only going to address FQ's Items 1 & 2 here. And sorry Watchman I have to disagree with your item #1 and expand on your Item #2
•   Bush 43 messed up in Iraq
Iraq has a stable government violence has been radically curtailed, huge numbers of terrorists were killed and despite the defeatist statements of the Dems the surge did work. Where is the error ?
•   The economy went in the tank
That it did, but it was the result of economic affirmative action programs forced through congress by the likes of Barney Frank and Maxine Waters (who is under investigation for corruption charges, after skating on assaulting a cop ) that forced banks to lend money to borrowers who had no hope of repaying the loans, in the name of "economic equality". Fact, poor people aren't economically equal to any one but other poor people.
1)They elected Obama partially for the same reason they elected Carter (and with much the same result it seems). That is, he came aong in the wake of a failed and disgraced GOP administration. As has been pointed out earlier, Bush screwed up. He failed the "Are you better off now then you were four years ago" test.
See my comment above, I will also add that You and I both had jobs under Bush. Are you better off than you were a year ago ?
2) They elected him partially for the same reason they elected Reagan. He offered hope in the wake of failure. Americans love an optimist with a can do attitude. The program was different, but the sales pitch was the same.
He was elected because he spent more than any 3 candidates combined in previous history and STILL needed the help of the leftist media in an unprecedented display of biased reporting in support of his media blitz.

[fightingquaker13]

And I don't know where you stand on this move WatchManUSA, but I say good move Mr. Pawlenty, and bad move agencies and local officials for not holding the line.  When the general public is holding still or hurting it is time for public workers to suck it up as well.  However, the majority of our public workers are union with guaranteed benefits and pay increases (the pay increases may not be much, but 5% over three years with 3% the first is better than many private sector).  Look at our teachers that may "only" get 3% over two years (latest contract down here), but that does not include the contractural and mentioned increase for longevity and continuing education.  Everyyear these teachers are getting increases for just teaching another year and for taking college classes that raise there payscale point.

Rant ... on hold, but not off 

I agree with most of what you say except for the continuing education bit. We want our teachers, and other employees to stay current in their fields. Do you really want someone using the same ten year old lecture notes that look like they were found with the dead sea scrolls? College courses cost money and require time and effort. That should be rewarded or folks won't bother.
FQ13
PS the same applies to cops and emts and city engineers. Stay current or get left behind.

[Hazcat]

But staying relevant and current in you profession is (or should be) necessary to stay employed, not something for which you get rewarded.

[MikeBjerum]

I agree with most of what you say except for the continuing education bit. We want our teachers, and other employees to stay current in their fields. Do you really want someone using the same ten year old lecture notes that look like they were found with the dead sea scrolls? College courses cost money and require time and effort. That should be rewarded or folks won't bother.
FQ13
PS the same applies to cops and emts and city engineers. Stay current or get left behind.

When private sector licensed workers, and unlicensed for that matter, are needing to get continuing education to keep their position or to better their performance and not getting reimbursed or increases, why should they support the practice in the public sector with their hard earned tax dollars?  In Minnesota, the playing field isn't level, and that is why you see so many people trying to get in to the public sector.

In answer to your comments on rewards, most are told their reward is maintaining their job!

[tombogan03884]

Do you really want someone using the same ten year old lecture notes that look like they were found with the dead sea scrolls?

Why not if the students learned the actual lesson from them ? Why was there any need, in subjects other than hard sciences where new discoveries have made old lesson plans obsolete,  to change the lesson plans of a 100+ years ago ? Those students figured out the math needed to build America's largest structures and put a man on the moon. It is worth noting that since the "New lesson plans" have come into effect in industry we have not been back to the moon.
PS the same applies to cops and emts and city engineers. Stay current or get left behind.
I can see the need to maintain certifications, and inform Cops of new laws, beyond that, again, no need for "new lesson plans" as the most efficient methods of stabilizing a patient or managing traffic flow change very slowly if at all.

I will also note that my last raise was 1.8 % and that was strictly on merit as the Corporation did not give cost of living raises.