Conservatives Don't Need A Leader

[WatchManUSA]

m58, as I think you know I live in “the Cities” in one of the more conservative suburbs on the west side.  We have been able to manage holding back some of levy increases.  I don’t like them when they happen. 

Some info on State employees, at least in the MNSCU (State Colleges and Universities), I’ll pass along.  For this year all there are no state raises and no step increases.  Benefits are also frozen.  Next year I believe there is scheduled 1% or 2% raise but I still think the steps are frozen.  The health benefits are scheduled to increase in costs to the employee with no change in coverage.  I’m not suggesting that we need to cry for them.

Tom, I was reflecting the perception of the electorate.  There is an old sales saying that "perception is reality."  Regardless of what is true or reasoned or how the perception was created - perception is reality. 

So I was reflecting my perception of the perception of the electorate.  I perceive that, perhaps you didn't understand my personal perspective on their perception.   

[tombogan03884]

Sorry Watchman, I did not pick up on that. Thanks for clarifying it.

[fightingquaker13]

Sorry guys, but you are dead wrong here. Even history does change. New facts, new interpretations, new methodologies etc? What do you think profs do all day? Show up for a 1 hr lecture and go home? All those new books and journal articles just wasted ink? The new biographies on Roosevelt and Adams a waste of time to read, hell there was a book written in 1889, why go further? The point is that the classes and hours are a bonus to the employer, and an extra burden to the employee they shoud be compensated. As far as EMTs and cops, todays policing techniques whether it be SWAT or forensics or even riot control are light years ahead of what they were a decade ago. Private industry knows this. Why do so many corporations pay for courses and advanced degrees? Why is the militay willing to pay for advanced degrees for its officers and BAs for NCOs? Charity? I think not. Nothing comes for free. You want the best educated, most prepared teachers (cops, engineers, EMTs) it will cost you. Talent follows money.
FQ13

[PegLeg45]

Sorry guys, but you are dead wrong here. Even history does change. New facts, new interpretations, new methodologies etc? What do you think profs do all day? Show up for a 1 hr lecture and go home? All those new books and journal articles just wasted ink? The new biographies on Roosevelt and Adams a waste of time to read, hell there was a book written in 1889, why go further? FQ13

Seems you just shot (for the most part) your own argument in the foot.
While new "facts" may be discovered from time to time concerning certain historical items, and brought to light, it is the liberal 'interprtations & methodologies' of/by humans of those hard facts that has twisted the educational system to the point that is now.
For example, it is generally agreed in historical data that Hitler and his minions were largely responsible for the extermination of over six million human beings over a set period of time. Now, there is a growing tide in certain cultures and parts of the world that are in part denying the existence of the Holocaust in its entirety. If you get enough 'educated professionals' interpreting and methodizing long enough on the subject, in a few more generations it is conceivable that people will accept it as 'historical fact' that it didn't happen.


Now as to the topic of Conservative leadership..... as long as Conservatives continue to 'needle each other' on the small individual personal issues and nit-pick at each segment of their own side on every little issue, they will never form into a single cohesive fighting unit to overthrow the flowing tide of the liberal agenda. The biggest problem with the Conservatives is lack of solidarity. You don't need the same level of solidarity with the liberal agenda due to the appeal to the masses (ie hand-outs ans such).

[MikeBjerum]

Sorry guys, but you are dead wrong here. Even history does change. New facts, new interpretations, new methodologies etc? What do you think profs do all day? Show up for a 1 hr lecture and go home? All those new books and journal articles just wasted ink? The new biographies on Roosevelt and Adams a waste of time to read, hell there was a book written in 1889, why go further? The point is that the classes and hours are a bonus to the employer, and an extra burden to the employee they shoud be compensated. As far as EMTs and cops, todays policing techniques whether it be SWAT or forensics or even riot control are light years ahead of what they were a decade ago. Private industry knows this. Why do so many corporations pay for courses and advanced degrees? Why is the militay willing to pay for advanced degrees for its officers and BAs for NCOs? Charity? I think not. Nothing comes for free. You want the best educated, most prepared teachers (cops, engineers, EMTs) it will cost you. Talent follows money.
FQ13

Did you even read my response to this?  I addressed all of these issues in comparison of public vs. private.

WatchMan - Every entity is different.  I was referring to our local schools, city and county workers.  Since I quit teaching I am out of touch with much of MSCU.

[Sponsor]

[tt11758]

The fact is, FQ, those of us out here in the real world are getting tired of OUR employees (ie, those feeding at the government tit) enjoying salary increases, expecting to have the cost of their CE covered, etc., while at the same time, those of us paying the bills are just damn happy to have a job.....even when that job does NOT include an annual pay raise, and a ridiculous benefit package. 

Perhaps if you'd step outside your hallowed halls of academia for just a bit, and take a look around the REAL world, some things might become more clear to you.

[fightingquaker13]

The fact is, FQ, those of us out here in the real world are getting tired of OUR employees (ie, those feeding at the government tit) enjoying salary increases, expecting to have the cost of their CE covered, etc., while at the same time, those of us paying the bills are just damn happy to have a job.....even when that job does NOT include an annual pay raise, and a ridiculous benefit package. 

Perhaps if you'd step outside your hallowed halls of academia for just a bit, and take a look around the REAL world, some things might become more clear to you.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm in the not so hallowed halls of unemployment eating my savings and a very much reduced portfolio (not that there was much of one to begin with) so reality and I are are on intimate terms. Secondly, I agree about absurd benefits. My argument was over CE raises. Again, talent follows money. You can't expect excellence and pay for mediocrity. Saying to an employee, if you go out and get this certification, that degree, these advanced training classes on your own time and dime and we'll pay you more, or promote you, they will. You don't, they won't.
FQ13

[MikeBjerum]

In case you haven't noticed, I'm in the not so hallowed halls of unemployment eating my savings and a very much reduced portfolio (not that there was much of one to begin with) so reality and I are are on intimate terms. Secondly, I agree about absurd benefits. My argument was over CE raises. Again, talent follows money. You can't expect excellence and pay for mediocrity. Saying to an employee, if you go out and get this certification, that degree, these advanced training classes on your own time and dime and we'll pay you more, or promote you, they will. You don't, they won't.
FQ13

So, how do you explain those of us that do it ourselves, don't get reimbursed but keep coming in day in and day out?  There are a lot of us out here just thankful to have the job, or should I say paycheck.

[tt11758]

So, how do you explain those of us that do it ourselves, don't get reimbursed but keep coming in day in and day out?  There are a lot of us out here just thankful to have the job, or should I say paycheck.

The exact point I was trying to make.

[fightingquaker13]

So, how do you explain those of us that do it ourselves, don't get reimbursed but keep coming in day in and day out?  There are a lot of us out here just thankful to have the job, or should I say paycheck.

You and I take pride in our work. To many don't. You provide a culture of excellence and reward it, excellence is what you'll get. If medocrity is the norm, you get a work to rule mentality. To many folks will say why bother if it doesn't benefit me. Anyone whos had a job sees this every day.
FQ13