"Bunker" Mentality.

[long762range]

A major difficulty I have with the "bunker" mentality is that you are ultimately alone.  Whether you have a well stocked reenforced home in the hills or in the city, survival will become iffy at best.

I believe that to increase the possiblity of survival you should develop a network of friends, family and neighbors that would come together help each other in time of need. 

Such a group can share their supplies, meet medical needs, and protect each other as a group.

Even though I am now in the senior age catagory I am confident that I could survive most disasters... but If I am alone I would be easy game for a group of predators.  I am always aware of my surroundings, am alwyas armed and have a plan to deal with aggressors but I do not have eyes in the back of my head and must sleep  occasionally.

Most of those who settled the West went here as a group.  Wagon trains gave help and protection  for those were together.  If you broke a wheel other members of the group would help you repair and remount it.  If you became sick, others would help care for you.  If there was danger of indian or other hostile forces the group could mass their arms for defense of the group. 

The concept is still valid.  As a group your odds of survival are greatly enhanced as are those of the other members of your group. 

When the danger recedes you will have maintained your humanity because you will have helped not only yourself but others to survive with some sort of dignity.

[tombogan03884]

Look to the original frontier.
New England was explored by individual hunters and Very small groups of trappers who were penetrating enemy held territory during war time. Actual settlement was carried out by one or more families settling in close proximity to each other. But in times of danger they with drew to the security of towns such as Rumford (now Concord) where larger numbers allowed for a division of labor while freeing some men for security duties. Being mostly Scots Irish immigrants from Europe they did not find many Indians on their patrols, but their children, raised in the wilderness, such as John Stark, and Robert Rogers performed much better.

[Rob Pincus]

The context of the incident probably dictate the efficacy of a group response. Most events in the modern world are essentially over on a tactical level by the time you could hope to organize the average community or group of neighbors.

And the dangers of moving into chaos to "group up" might outweigh the group dynamic benefits in the short duration.

I think that the concept, which is inherently a good one and has obvious benefits, would require a significant amount of pre-planning and efficient execution of that plan with the group goal in mind as soon as an incident was imminent or occurring. Good luck finding a group that is both motivated and dedicated enough to pull than off in 2010!

Other thoughts?

[tombogan03884]

Regardless of what you may think of their religious beliefs I think the Branch Davidian's were on the right track.
They, like the early colonists had sufficient manpower on hand, with stores weapons, gardening etc. They were far enough from town to avoid the immediate repercussions of civil unrest, but still close enough to be able to go in to market their excess production and buy or trade for what they could not produce for them selves. The biggest draw back to their set up was the use of wood structures, especially in such a dry environment. Even with out the ATF they could have been wiped out by a wild fire or major windstorm. Stone, masonry, Adobe or some form of rammed earth would have been more fire and damage resistant,cooler in the summer, easier to heat and many materials could be obtained for free.

[Badgersmilk]

Just stay away from the Kool Aid those kind of people make!  

No, I agree with what Tom say's about the Dividions enough that I have little question their way of life threatoned established governments control as a whole, & this is why the situation was escalated to the heights it was, and why they are now dead.  Stalin himself would have been quite happy with the outcome.

Read the quote at the bottom of this post.

[Sponsor]

[long762range]

The key, I think is to develop a group who are willing to join together to help each other.

Perhaps this can happen easier in a small town or rural community than in a large city such  as where I live.

When my wife's small town was destroyed by a tornado, neighbors joined together to help each other.  Many were killed and injured and many homes were destroyed.  Those who still had livible homes opened them to those who were now homeless.  Food was shared, clearing of damaged homes and salvage of personal effects was done by neighbors.

No one was left to fend for themselves. 

This has happened again and again in disasters in America.  We are a people who help each other.

I met a elderly Japanese man who survived the great earthquake and fire which destroyed Yokohama.  The government was unable to get aide workers into the area for three days.  He and his siblings took their families to their elderly parents house(the only one still standing).  They brought with them all of the food from their homes and lived there for 3 months helping each other.  This allowed them to survive the immediate problem of starvation and exposure, by joining their supplies and efforts together.

Rob, you are right.  The idea of helping each other in time of need would take significant preplanning and commitment on the part of the group.  If you begin with family and immediate neighbors it can be done.

Beginning with a commitment by family(siblings, inlaws, cousins) in the area to join together, immediate neighbors who are willing can be brought into the plan and the group.

[texcaliber]

I do not think there is "one" best or perfect system. Like martial arts combat the better well rounded individual will most likely be favored. The outcome may differ because of any number of variables, the best betting chance is what we are trying to give ourselves or looking for. I think?

[Badgersmilk]

"We are a people who help each other."

Read my last post in the "Showing all your cards" thread... 

[long762range]

"We are a people who help each other."

Read my last post in the "Showing all your cards" thread... 

"Long term power outages, and ice storms make people get ugly fast!  Power was out for a week in MI a few years back due to a HUGE dump of snow and ice.  I had been plowing all the driveways and the road we lived on from the first day (with a Yamaha quad), on the fourth day the snow let up and I didn't need to do anything on our street, so I went to the next one over and started helping them plow / shovel out.  People told me things like.  From now on can you be sure and have this done before my husband gets home at 4:00?!?, or Next time push all the snow to the left side of the driveway, it just looks nicer.  or It's been snowing for hours today, what have you been waiting for?  I needed to go to the store!,  And my favorite.   A guy came out laughing and said.  I waited till your done to tell you this, but your not getting anything, ha, ha, ha,  You should have been smart enough to ask for the money first!  And he went back in his house.    (I was doing it all for free anyway  )

I never plowed anything but my street again for the 5 years after that. "

There is no doubt there are selfish people in the world.  Your example of selfish greedy people taking advantage during a crisis is classic.

What you did shows you have a good heart.  What others did in response to your acts of charity does not diminish the good you showed.

In a long term disaster i.e. a nuclear attack, failure of transportation due to fuel shortages, food riots, general anarchy, I believe that planned group cooperation may make the difference between survival and death.

We are Americans.  We DO help each other.  We may need to move away from the large cities to prove it though. 

[tombogan03884]

One of the points I was trying to make with my last post , ties in with Robs, moving in chaos comment. The type of preparedness we are discussing here is not possible for large portions of the population because it is not some thing you plan for "In case", it has to be something you live every day, like the Branch Davidians, or what the Hippies were attempting to do with their "communes" back in the 60's. Second best choice would be a small rural community, If you and your neighbors are already supplying your own plants and animals for food, hunting, fishing, and practicing usable skills through your hobbies the worst crisis that can hit would be the end of outside medicines and coffee, depending on your area of course,(are there sugar beets, sugar cane, or maple trees in Texas ? ) up here I can't think of much that can not be produced with a little prior planning.
As for BM's tale, that's less likely in a more isolated community where every one knows every one else, Barn and house raising's were an American tradition in small towns well into the 20th century and every one helped because their own place had been built the same way.